Looking For Advice from Barnfind/911 Hunting Expert

[SkunkWorks]

Agreed with sugarwood.

It sounds to me like you're just trying to lowball these 'barn finds'. If you really wanted a 911 for yourself the buy and sell on here has a ton to choose from, and you would have bought one already.

Realistically, if you approached me like that you'd be off my buyer's list too. Few things are worse than strangers knocking on your door offering you 10% of market value for your car.

[JJK78-951]

Not sure I can add much that hasn't been said but as others have said basically money talks and BS walks. Cash is king. Also don't be a creeper, letters and harassment are not likely to get you anywhere other then pissing the owners off, if they wanted to sell, they would be talking to you.

Regarding tactics, if you think you are going to find the guy who has a $100K car for sale for $10K, keep dreaming, plus I would call you a sleezeball if you knowingly took advantage of someone without disclosing how much the car was actually worth.

IMHO honesty is the best policy, you seem well educated on these cars, do a bit more research on the next car you find before you approach the owner. Find out what it is worth and how much it would cost THEM to fix it at a shop. Many folks can't/won't want to DIY on these cars, so be honest next time you find a good one.
Take the red SC for example, car in tip top shape might be worth $40K, looks like it needs paint, engine work etc. figure a round number on that and see if you can afford to make a reasonable the car. Just because it needs $40K in work doesn't make it a $500 car - Also know that these cars are worth XXX $'s in parts so if they know what they have (which they should because you should have told them) then a car is worth nothing more then its' parts value. Knowing what I do about SCs' and what it takes to get them running again, that red car is a parts car or has parts value only. I'd peg it around $10-15K meaning that is likely the lowest the seller may take for it, does that mean it can't be brought back to daily driver duty, no, but to do it right you will have every bit of $40K+ in it and/or a LOT of sweat equity.

Money. Don't be a creeper/stalker. Be honest - most Porsche people know what they have got, try and pull a fast one and offer 1/2 value they will smell you coming.

$.02
J

[SalParadise]

Originally Posted by bbturbo

I know where two pre 73 911s, and a 930, are rotting outside where I used to live in Indiana that can't be acquired because of the owner's arrogance. He believes he has a plan for them, and nobody can tell him otherwise. Fifteen years later, the cars haven't moved. Sad, but reality.

Hmmmmm...and the reality is in another 15 years, where is he going to be? Dead? Sad but reality.

[Unobtanium-inc]

Originally Posted by NYNick

Of course, being ever vigilant on the selling sites is critical. Have you contacted Unobtanium yet? Maybe he has something for you in upstate NY?



Nick

I think the poster is going about it wrong, if you've found 6 cars and haven't been able to buy 1 of them, you're doing something wrong. You are going about this like a flipper and probably being perceived by the owner's as a flipper. If you are looking for pick up a car for yourself you need to get involved as heavy as you can in the local Porsche scene. Go to every event, talk to everybody, make lots of friends. The best cars never see the light of day, they change hands quietly amongst friends. I know of a Speedster that was sold new in Philly, has had 5 owners, and has never left a 10 square mile area.
I rarely buy cars that are advertised anywhere and I buy a lot of Porsches. So get involved, do any favors you can for local guys, make it known you are looking for a car for yourself, someone will sell you one. Be honest, always, and don't lowball, you are better off paying retail for a known car with known history than getting an unknown car that you will spend thousands on trying to get running.
Take this advice from a guy who has bought hundreds of Porsches, many times from guys that "will never sell".

Have your approach be honest, a nice guy wanting a nice car, most guys would much rather do a quiet deal with someone they know then open up their house/car to the world.

---Adam

[Unobtanium-inc]

And some inside shots.

---Adam

[SalParadise]

Yeah Adam, we didn't really need the advice. Just wanted to see if you'd post pictures of your conquests again.

[bbturbo]

Simply amazing, Adam.

[NYNick]

I couldn't agree with Adam more. Unfortunately, the OP has gone radio silent.

[Unobtanium-inc]

Originally Posted by pmax

If you ever wander over to the technical forum, there's an active thread for these lovely pics.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/porsche-911-technical-forum/241262-post-pics-sad-abandoned-porsches.html

Except my cars are neither sad nor abandoned, we steadily send them all over the world into the hands of guys who restore them. Unlike many of the guys who left these cars to slowly rot away, we pull them out of whatever hole they crawled into and send them on their way, making a living in the process. You don't make money, if you don't sell cars.

---Adam

[pmax]

Originally Posted by Unobtanium-inc

Except my cars are neither sad nor abandoned, we steadily send them all over the world into the hands of guys who restore them. Unlike many of the guys who left these cars to slowly rot away, we pull them out of whatever hole they crawled into and send them on their way, making a living in the process. You don't make money, if you don't sell cars.

---Adam

Sure, but until they are sold, they remain sad and abandoned rotting away in that nice weather you have over there.

[Unobtanium-inc]

Originally Posted by pmax

Sure, but until they are sold, they remain sad and abandoned rotting away in that nice weather you have over there.

If you watch pics of my yard you will notice everything changes every few months, rarely is anything here long. Like I said, we are doing the right thing, getting projects into the hands of people who want them, unlike a lot of guys who just like looking at them, as they sink into the ground.
Here's a good example of the changing of the seasons. Move em in, move em out, rawhide!

---Adam

[littleoldman]

Karma will get you one day like it got me.
Stealing cars at low ball prices well below market from individuals that aren't aware of their current value is "not the right thing".

[Bravoaloha]

Wow! Thanks for the responses guys.

Originally Posted by michael lang

You've said that you are following up with the owners but you haven't said what you actually are saying or writing to these people. Is it safe to even assume that you've asked these folks what their "can't refuse" number is? If you haven't and you can draw that out of them, at least you now have them thinking about all the things they could do if they had that money. Don't give up, I believe the car you ultimately end of owning will find you, just hang in there.

Good idea talking price, my strategy has been not to be too pushy and talk price too soon, but getting the $$$ signs to start floating around in the owners head is a good idea. The bigger problem (especially with the 964 targa and the 993/911 targa guys) is even getting them to talk.

Originally Posted by Coastr

Remember you think you're a buyer but you're actually a seller. You are trying to sell the idea of the cash being more useful to the owner than the car. Each person with a car has an idea of what they are going to do with it, somehow you need to replace that idea with one of what they can do with the money.

This is likely to only succeed if you can get the people to like you. Only in a deceased estate type scenario will someone just unload the car. Everyone else is keeping the car because either the plan or what it was means something to them. You need to develop a rapport with them before they will even listen to you.

If you're young than your enthusiasm is key - and that means not coming across as a flipper or dealer but your plans of keeping and getting the car back on the road and restored to former glory. Maybe if you can convince someone that you'll realise the dream of the car but for yourself instead of them, you might succeed.

Sometimes things can be bought for much less money than previous offers with the right approach and the right rapport. Happens for houses, cars, all sorts of things. Good luck and keep us posted.

Oh, and don't share any further details of these cars. People will work backwards and find out where they are and snatch them from under you.

This is all good advice, and alot of what my "angle" is. I'm young and enthusiastic and usually don't have trouble getting people to like me- hasn't worked in my Porsche hunt however! I have often used your exact words of "restoring the car to its former glory" to owners hoping it will help convince them to sell.

No more details! I was careful and I don't think I gave enough away on any of them to figure out where they are- plus! They aren't for sale!

Originally Posted by MADC

Bravo

I live in the same area and have spoken to the owner of the White Targa and red SC on 3 occasions. Each time he has told me he was "ready to sell" and would call me. The next time I would see him, he would say "oh yes, I changed my mind, but now I'm ready, I'll call you..." Its a shame they are rotting away but I'm relatively confident that gentlemen will not sell anytime soon. My advice would be to keep looking, never make anyone feel pressured and something will turn up. There are still cars out there.

Good Luck, and feel free to contact me,

MADC

I assumed he must have had other people knocking given how visible those cars are, but yes, I've gotten basically the same run-around from him and I think you are right. Thanks!

Originally Posted by 75 911s

Our own classified is the best barn around. 77 widebody in the classifieds at 22k is a steal. Pull off the late model body kit and wheels and take it back to a impact bumper. It already has a 3.2, front cooler and flares.

I do like this, and I think you're right! Alot of potential, and something that drives for a reasonable number.

Originally Posted by NYNick

I agree. For $22K that car is a steal.

Be that as it may, I'm a little confused why you are chasing cars that aren't for sale? This market is hotter than a firecracker for Porsches. My cars have come from keeping my ear to the ground, hanging with Porsche people, especially Porsche shops, and even the mechanics in those shops. These guys are talking to owners EVERY DAY and have the connections you need.

Of course, being ever vigilant on the selling sites is critical. Have you contacted Unobtanium yet? Maybe he has something for you in upstate NY?

FWIW, I put the word out a few years ago for my oldest son. One of my mechanic buddies called with a lead on a 88 3.2. We went and he bought it at what today was a great price! Sure it needed work but like you, he got it done himself and I dare say, that car isn't going anywhere anytime son and is a rocket ship!

Good luck. Put the word out.

Nick

I have a pretty good relationship with my local shop and have put the word out with those guys and some friends from drivers ed. I'm confident that, as you say, something will turn up- I was just hoping to expedite the process.

Originally Posted by SalParadise

This is a great start to a great thread. You'll get something. You seem to be able to sniff them out. It's a fun thing that you're doing, just be careful of the owners that have guns and dogs..

Good luck, you'll get one. They made and imported tens of thousands and you'll find the right owner willing to let her go - or his widow.

Agreed! Thanks

Originally Posted by sugarwood

I'll take a different angle, and dig a little deeper.

You've been looking for a 911 for over 10 years ?
That means there is an issue.
Something tells me that you don't really want a 911.

You pestering owners of neglected cars that will cost you more than a nice $30k car?
Why are you bottom feeding? That is the question.

Are you interested in a car, or are only looking for some sort of OCD caliber "steal of a lifetime"?
My guess is that you seem to have gotten caught up in buying a steal that you've lost sight of your goal.
Why did you never buy a car in '06, when they were a dime a dozen? That is the question.
When the cars were $12k, I have a hunch you offering $6k.

You're all over the place, so it is unclear what your goal is.
Are you looking to flip a car and make a quick buck?
Are you looking for to fulfil your Porsche dream and own a nice clean 911?
Are you looking for a restoration project?

These are all very different things.

I could have purchased back in '06, but picked up an e36 BMW instead. That car I paid 11k for is now worth maybe 4. Hindsight is 20/20 and I was into both cars back then. I was afraid of the 911 maintenance back then (though the BMW isn't better) and the BMW made more sense with split/folding seats and enough room for 5 teenagers and getting stuff to college and back.

I havn't been shopping for 10 years. Since '06 I finished high school, college, got my first and now second job. Now I'm back at the point that I can get in the game.

Definitely not looking for an OCD steal of a lifetime, the only flipping I'm interested in doing is flipping that might get me closer to owning a coupe worth restoring (trade, etc). My goal is to own a car I can drive, have fun with, work on and return to, as Coastr said, "its former glory".

Originally Posted by manbridge 74

Are you in law enforcement? Or did you pay a service for finding the owner through plate? That would turn me off from calling you back. Sorta creeper.

Hate to admit that I did pay for the service, and I don't disagree that it was a creeper move, but the car was sitting in a parking garage in a big multi-tenant building, so there really wasn't another way to figure out who owned it besides using the plate.

Originally Posted by mykle57

If you're going to approach an owner be sure you can:
Accurately make a fair market value assessment of the vehicle on the spot.
Make a convincing/compelling offer for the vehicle
Have a pocket full of cash to pay on the spot
And a tow vehicle standing by to haul it out of there immediately
Otherwise, your offer just became the 'ridiculous lowball offer' story he'll be telling the next buyer who knocks on his door.

I'm not driving around with 15-20k in my truck hoping a 911 will pop up but I do have a tow vehicle and a trailer ready to go and I'm liquid. I could definitely pull off a same day transaction, but I'm not willing to risk having that much cash on me at all times.

[Bravoaloha]

Originally Posted by bbturbo

TV has really given a horrible perspective on the flipping cars, or finding deals, all while inflating markets. The main detail that many people don't think about is: Just because it is sitting, deteriorating, and breaking our hearts in the process, doesn't mean the guy wants to sell. Most of us think that if a car is sitting, it needs to be saved. Many people who own these cars don't think like that. They believe the car will be saved by them someday, but they typically never are. They live by the "next year" or "next project on the list" and hate being hassled, especially by someone that knows more than them, or wants to undercut them. Just a thought.

The main way to tell is to let them throw out their insane, cash-today price, and go from there. That will give you the indicator on if it can be acquired someday. I know where two pre 73 911s, and a 930, are rotting outside where I used to live in Indiana that can't be acquired because of the owner's arrogance. He believes he has a plan for them, and nobody can tell him otherwise. Fifteen years later, the cars haven't moved. Sad, but reality.

I am becoming very aware of this reality. I'm not looking to steal anything for 5k, but numbers I was thinking were like $15-18k for that 964, 12k for the Cali SC, maybe 16 for the 911 targa and the 993 cab. I think those are low, but fair numbers, but as you say, if they're not sellers, they wont sell.

Originally Posted by Unobtanium-inc

I think the poster is going about it wrong, if you've found 6 cars and haven't been able to buy 1 of them, you're doing something wrong. You are going about this like a flipper and probably being perceived by the owner's as a flipper. If you are looking for pick up a car for yourself you need to get involved as heavy as you can in the local Porsche scene. Go to every event, talk to everybody, make lots of friends. The best cars never see the light of day, they change hands quietly amongst friends. I know of a Speedster that was sold new in Philly, has had 5 owners, and has never left a 10 square mile area.
I rarely buy cars that are advertised anywhere and I buy a lot of Porsches. So get involved, do any favors you can for local guys, make it known you are looking for a car for yourself, someone will sell you one. Be honest, always, and don't lowball, you are better off paying retail for a known car with known history than getting an unknown car that you will spend thousands on trying to get running.
Take this advice from a guy who has bought hundreds of Porsches, many times from guys that "will never sell".

Have your approach be honest, a nice guy wanting a nice car, most guys would much rather do a quiet deal with someone they know then open up their house/car to the world.

---Adam
]

Thanks Adam, I follow you on Instagram and your conquests are very impressive! I am pretty involved locally with my club but I do need to do a better job of putting the word out with those guys. I think you're definitely right about shifting my focus to the club and paying a little more for something with a history. I hope I don't come off as a dishonest flipper, but there's a possibility I do!

[sugarwood]

I can totally relate to being intimated by fears of repair costs. I also used a BMW to bridge the gap!

Are you specifically not looking for a turnkey car that is like $30k+ !

[Unobtanium-inc]

Originally Posted by littleoldman

Karma will get you one day like it got me.
Stealing cars at low ball prices well below market from individuals that aren't aware of their current value is "not the right thing".

I hope this wasn't directed at me? I'm quite the opposite. I walk into every deal with the knowledge that I know the car is valuable, but so does the seller, we just have to find a price that works for both of us. My reputation is for being very fair with people when I buy. Why do you think 99% of my business is word of mouth, because when a guy asks his Porsche buddy who to call about selling his car, 9 times out of 10, they say call me. You don't get those calls "Stealing cars at low ball prices well below market from individuals that aren't aware of their current value"
Sure you get some deals that way, but it isn't a long term way to run a business. If you read my articles in 356 Registry magazine, Early 911S Registry Magazine, Excellence, or on PCA you will know how I operate.

---Adam

[Bravoaloha]

Originally Posted by Unobtanium-inc

I hope this wasn't directed at me? I'm quite the opposite. I walk into every deal with the knowledge that I know the car is valuable, but so does the seller, we just have to find a price that works for both of us. My reputation is for being very fair with people when I buy. Why do you think 99% of my business is word of mouth, because when a guy asks his Porsche buddy who to call about selling his car, 9 times out of 10, they say call me. You don't get those calls "Stealing cars at low ball prices well below market from individuals that aren't aware of their current value"
Sure you get some deals that way, but it isn't a long term way to run a business. If you read my articles in 356 Registry magazine, Early 911S Registry Magazine, Excellence, or on PCA you will know how I operate.

---Adam

Haha, I thought it was directed at me after my 911 speedster talk. Either way I am comfortable with the level of karma I maintain and I think you are too Mr. Unobtanium!

[Unobtanium-inc]

Originally Posted by Bravoaloha

Haha, I thought it was directed at me after my 911 speedster talk. Either way I am comfortable with the level of karma I maintain and I think you are too Mr. Unobtanium!

I'm fine with my Karma from buying Porsches, I get Christmas cards, well wishes at swap meets, I even have a guy who sends me honey from his bee's!

---Adam

[shaunmbenson]

Have you considered buying something half way between barn and concours - a driver! - and then you will have spent less to be a member of this big ol porsche family (no really - you will spend less on a driver). And when you are a member of a family people in the family trust you more.

Any barn finds I've been offered were people I knew or who friends intro'd me - -including the "mechanic circle of friends deal". you don't get that when you are just shopping.

[pmax]

Originally Posted by Bravoaloha

Definitely not looking for an OCD steal of a lifetime, the only flipping I'm interested in doing is flipping that might get me closer to owning a coupe worth restoring (trade, etc). My goal is to own a car I can drive, have fun with, work on and return to, as Coastr said, "its former glory".


Hate to admit that I did pay for the service, and I don't disagree that it was a creeper move, but the car was sitting in a parking garage in a big multi-tenant building, so there really wasn't another way to figure out who owned it besides using the plate.

With this dick move, it looks like you skipped Flipper 101 and went straight to Flipper Advanced Techniques.

Remember, always carry cash. Rule #1.

I'm not driving around with 15-20k in my truck hoping a 911 will pop up but I do have a tow vehicle and a trailer ready to go and I'm liquid. I could definitely pull off a same day transaction, but I'm not willing to risk having that much cash on me at all times.