Looking For Advice from Barnfind/911 Hunting Expert

[Bravoaloha]

Hi Guys,

Before I go into my long winded post, I'm looking for advice from those of you that have found cars, and then been able to successfully buy them from not-so-willing owners. I have done alot of finding, but no buying!

I'm a longtime Pelican member and aspiring Porsche/911 owner. I have always lusted after these cars and now I'm wishing I bit the bullet back in '06 when I was shopping for my first car and cars that are now 30-40 grand were 12-15!

I have been working hard since and participating in PCA DE with my dad in his '86 Carrera for about 6 years. At this point I am scrounging the bottom of the barrel for a project I can drive, restore and have some fun with. For work I am on the road all over NJ and in and out of old warehouses and buildings everyday. To date I've found 5 air cooled 911's and 1 356 in various stages of disrepair, all with owners unwilling to even talk selling.

I think people would be interested to hear what I've found so I will share. It's comforting to know they are still out there and I know if I'm patient eventually one of my letters and phone calls will fall on willing ears but I'm hoping to expedite the process!

'89 Speedster Starting with this one because I think it was the first car I stumbled upon. Wouldn't be surprised if no one believes me that I actually found a close to mint Speedster in a warehouse in Bergen County, but I did! Diddn't do anything about the car when I first saw it. I diddn't know what it was and thought maybe it was some weird chop job someone did, I definitely diddn't know how rare they are and wasn't interested in it (I'm looking for a coupe). Went back a few months later, saw it again and decided to look into it. Saw it was worth close to 200k and decided to see if the owner was willing to sell (I thought maybe I could flip it if he diddnt know what he had). He was actually the most receptive and responsive guy I have encountered, said he took the car out about a month earlier and had 2 people chase him down offering to go to the bank right then and there and give him $200k for it so this ones out of the question!

'91 964 Targa Black on Black. Found this one in a parking garage. Under a cover, super dusty and 4 flat tires. Had a plate on it so I took the number down and found the owner. Called home and office, no answer or call back. Since I have sent probably 5-8 letters (every 3-6 months or so). Only thing I have heard is from a secretary of his asking that I stop calling.

SC Targa and 993 Cab These two are sitting in some guys driveway. The house looks almost abandoned, and the owner seems like a bit of a hoarder. SC is (was) red, cab is white. These cars are in pretty bad shape and rotting, but I thought if I could get them cheap enough I could do something with them (part out or trade both for a solid enough coupe). First time I spoke with the owner he was actually pretty receptive, said he was willing to sell but there was someone else that was interested. Since then we spoke another time, he said he'd call me back and hasn't answered my calls since. I have written a couple letters and made calls, nothing.



Dont' have a shot of the Targa

SC Coupe, California Car My Uncle knows about my search and said there's something in his neighborhood I might be interested in. A couple days later he sent me the following pics. This car would be perfect for my budget. Nice dry California body with a lot of tinkering to be done. Car apparently had some engine issues but ran when he parked her. My Uncle talked to him, not interested in selling. I sent him a letter and havn't heard back.



Little cousin with a thumbs up!



Needs some paint..

356 Havn't actually seen this car. My dad saw it, it's actually in a garage in my town. He was walking by and caught a glimpse of it. I have left a couple messages with the owner and caught his wife outside once when I was driving by. She said the car has been at a shop for over a year and that she diddn't know what was going on with it. Sounds like its either getting restored, or just sitting, semi-forgotten.

Anybody willing to share some secrets on convincing these people to part with these cars that are clearly being neglected (besides the Speedster and maybe the 356)?? I am always very courteous, understanding and the opposite of pushy with these people (not counting the frequency of my calls and letters).

Any/all wisdom welcome!!

[michael lang]

You've said that you are following up with the owners but you haven't said what you actually are saying or writing to these people. Is it safe to even assume that you've asked these folks what their "can't refuse" number is? If you haven't and you can draw that out of them, at least you now have them thinking about all the things they could do if they had that money. Don't give up, I believe the car you ultimately end of owning will find you, just hang in there.

[Coastr]

I have never successfully bought a sitting car so I can't give direct advice.

I would say the letter writing campaigns are not working for you, so doing more of that is probably not going to help.

My best advice would be to watch the youtube series 'barn find hunter'. In it he doesn't actually buy anything but he does approach owners and try and get them to say they would sell it. I would watch each of the episodes in detail and make some notes about his approach.

Remember you think you're a buyer but you're actually a seller. You are trying to sell the idea of the cash being more useful to the owner than the car. Each person with a car has an idea of what they are going to do with it, somehow you need to replace that idea with one of what they can do with the money.

This is likely to only succeed if you can get the people to like you. Only in a deceased estate type scenario will someone just unload the car. Everyone else is keeping the car because either the plan or what it was means something to them. You need to develop a rapport with them before they will even listen to you.

If you're young than your enthusiasm is key - and that means not coming across as a flipper or dealer but your plans of keeping and getting the car back on the road and restored to former glory. Maybe if you can convince someone that you'll realise the dream of the car but for yourself instead of them, you might succeed.

Sometimes things can be bought for much less money than previous offers with the right approach and the right rapport. Happens for houses, cars, all sorts of things. Good luck and keep us posted.

Oh, and don't share any further details of these cars. People will work backwards and find out where they are and snatch them from under you.

[flskala]

I live in NJ too. People here are sometimes tough to deal with. I get asked all the time about selling my cars. The attention is usually not a good thing for current owners. 100% of them are in for the quick flip.

You'd be better off buying a good condition 911/964/993, no matter how much it costs. It's going to cost the same in the end and will only appreciate from here anyway...

Edit: I know of at least 6 air cooled Porsches within 20 min of my house. None of them are willing to sell.

Good Luck.

[Dpmulvan]

Forget the Barnfind hunter it's fiction. You never told us how much cash you have to spend?? you have to be realistic with your offers and show up with a pocketful of cash. Forget letters and phone calls show up in person. eBay, Internet, televised auctions, velocity channel has made it harder to get screaming deals (everyone thinks their sitting on a fortune). Good luck

[MADC]

Bravo

I live in the same area and have spoken to the owner of the White Targa and red SC on 3 occasions. Each time he has told me he was "ready to sell" and would call me. The next time I would see him, he would say "oh yes, I changed my mind, but now I'm ready, I'll call you..." Its a shame they are rotting away but I'm relatively confident that gentlemen will not sell anytime soon. My advice would be to keep looking, never make anyone feel pressured and something will turn up. There are still cars out there.

Good Luck, and feel free to contact me,

MADC

[75 911s]

Our own classified is the best barn around. 77 widebody in the classifieds at 22k is a steal. Pull off the late model body kit and wheels and take it back to a impact bumper. It already has a 3.2, front cooler and flares.

[Cornerlot]

Seems like 9 out of 10 owners get defensive if you do a cold-call on them and offer to buy their car. They've kept it for some reason, usually out of pride in not giving up on their dream. Key is to find the owner who wants to sell the car but is too lazy to actually market it. Bought many cars that way. Also helps is you spend some time up front getting to know the owner and showing your enthusiasm for their dream, well before you offer up any cash to take it away from them.

Steve

[NYNick]

Originally Posted by 75 911s

Our own classified is the best barn around. 77 widebody in the classifieds at 22k is a steal. Pull off the late model body kit and wheels and take it back to a impact bumper. It already has a 3.2, front cooler and flares.

I agree. For $22K that car is a steal.

Be that as it may, I'm a little confused why you are chasing cars that aren't for sale? This market is hotter than a firecracker for Porsches. My cars have come from keeping my ear to the ground, hanging with Porsche people, especially Porsche shops, and even the mechanics in those shops. These guys are talking to owners EVERY DAY and have the connections you need.

Of course, being ever vigilant on the selling sites is critical. Have you contacted Unobtanium yet? Maybe he has something for you in upstate NY?

FWIW, I put the word out a few years ago for my oldest son. One of my mechanic buddies called with a lead on a 88 3.2. We went and he bought it at what today was a great price! Sure it needed work but like you, he got it done himself and I dare say, that car isn't going anywhere anytime son and is a rocket ship!

Good luck. Put the word out.

Nick

[SalParadise]

This is a great start to a great thread. You'll get something. You seem to be able to sniff them out. It's a fun thing that you're doing, just be careful of the owners that have guns and dogs..

I love it when people think they will have all the time in the world, let it sit and rot...little do they realize or know that we ALL have to part with this stuff sometime...

"On a long enough timeline, the survival rate for everyone drops to zero."

Good luck, you'll get one. They made and imported tens of thousands and you'll find the right owner willing to let her go - or his widow.

[sugarwood]

I'll take a different angle, and dig a little deeper.

You've been looking for a 911 for over 10 years ?
That means there is an issue.
Something tells me that you don't really want a 911.

You pestering owners of neglected cars that will cost you more than a nice $30k car?
Why are you bottom feeding? That is the question.

Are you interested in a car, or are only looking for some sort of OCD caliber "steal of a lifetime"?
My guess is that you seem to have gotten caught up in buying a steal that you've lost sight of your goal.
Why did you never buy a car in '06, when they were a dime a dozen? That is the question.
When the cars were $12k, I have a hunch you offering $6k.

You're all over the place, so it is unclear what your goal is.
Are you looking to flip a car and make a quick buck?
Are you looking for to fulfil your Porsche dream and own a nice clean 911?
Are you looking for a restoration project?

These are all very different things.

[Matt Monson]

I'd get pissed if letters started showing up in my mailbox. I'm already annoyed that I get postcards from used car sharks. Once your letter showed up you'd be black listed for life. That means if I was in the market to sell it wouldn't be you.

[manbridge 74]

Are you in law enforcement? Or did you pay a service for finding the owner through plate? That would turn me off from calling you back. Sorta creeper.

I'd say be ready to buy. I had a guy come look at a 95 Tacoma I had for sale. He was young and first caller so I patiently waited until he had it checked out by a shop of his choice. Then he wanted to low ball me by half my ask. I'd told him no and that I had many people waiting to see it. He was still sore that I sold it to the next guy who starting peeling off the c-notes until I agreed to his offer.

[mattC2993]

Originally Posted by manbridge 74

...I had a guy come look at a 95 Tacoma I had for sale. He was young and first caller so I patiently waited until he had it checked out by a shop of his choice. Then he wanted to low ball me by half my ask. ...

I don't let anybody get my vehicle inspected until we have agreed on a price. It saves me lots of aggravation.

[manbridge 74]

Good to know. I generally don't sell vehicles. I have some keepers, the others I give away to family/friends.

[mykle57]

If you're going to approach an owner be sure you can:
Accurately make a fair market value assessment of the vehicle on the spot.
Make a convincing/compelling offer for the vehicle
Have a pocket full of cash to pay on the spot
And a tow vehicle standing by to haul it out of there immediately
Otherwise, your offer just became the 'ridiculous lowball offer' story he'll be telling the next buyer who knocks on his door.

[pmax]

Flipper 101, suitcase full of cash and well packed.

Hire some muscle.

[SalParadise]

Originally Posted by mykle57

If you're going to approach an owner be sure you can:
Accurately make a fair market value assessment of the vehicle on the spot.
Make a convincing/compelling offer for the vehicle
Have a pocket full of cash to pay on the spot
And a tow vehicle standing by to haul it out of there immediately
Otherwise, your offer just became the 'ridiculous lowball offer' story he'll be telling the next buyer who knocks on his door.

Right on to this.

[SalParadise]

Originally Posted by pmax

Flipper 101, suitcase full of cash and well packed.

Hire some muscle.

Right on to this too. In all fairness, if you're looking to find that dude who has a 911 in his yard and you're waiting to hear yeah, I'll take $5K for it - those days are probably long gone.

People can easily find what they are worth. In 2012 when I got my car it was on Craigs - and the guy was nice enough to let me come up the next day and he held the car. Price: $4900. But then again, a nice SC I was looking at went for $9200, and a Pelican on here almost sold me his running SC for $7600 (yes, this was all 2012). I passed on another midyear for $4600, and bought a '74 that was pretty rusted for $5500 (for a possible 3.0 to switch, but I never did). But the game has changed significantly since then. People can get on the internet and check.

At this point you can pretty much assume that anyone who has a 911 in their yard and it can be seen then they have been approached. And if it's still there then they probably aren't selling. People do sell - but like others have said it's when they have the cash at hand and are willing to put it on the barrel head.

It would be interesting to see what Adam says about this as he makes a lot of deals with a lot of people that probably were hesitant or didn't want to sell until they were in their grave.

[bbturbo]

TV has really given a horrible perspective on the flipping cars, or finding deals, all while inflating markets. The main detail that many people don't think about is: Just because it is sitting, deteriorating, and breaking our hearts in the process, doesn't mean the guy wants to sell. Most of us think that if a car is sitting, it needs to be saved. Many people who own these cars don't think like that. They believe the car will be saved by them someday, but they typically never are. They live by the "next year" or "next project on the list" and hate being hassled, especially by someone that knows more than them, or wants to undercut them. Just a thought.

The main way to tell is to let them throw out their insane, cash-today price, and go from there. That will give you the indicator on if it can be acquired someday. I know where two pre 73 911s, and a 930, are rotting outside where I used to live in Indiana that can't be acquired because of the owner's arrogance. He believes he has a plan for them, and nobody can tell him otherwise. Fifteen years later, the cars haven't moved. Sad, but reality.