So...whats my 930 with needs worth?

bpu699 · 05:11 PM

Trying to figure out if I should sell my 930 or fix it... the older I get, the less time I have... Had my 930 on the track and was having a blast. Then, I couldn't get it to grab any gear. Towed it home to figure it out. So, dropped the motor to check the trans/clutch. Gearbox seems fine best I can tell when it came out. Figured I would adjust the valves at the same time, and when I took off the valve cover found a broken head stud...bummer. I really don't want to run with a broken head stud...I can fix it, but trying to decide if I want to spend the time...

So, need to figure out if I want to fix it myself and get it back on the street/track, or sell as is.

Here is a brutally honest description. Looking for folks input on value as it sits.

Here is the info I have, pics to follow:

1988 porsche 930 black, 60,000 miles or so. I have owned it about 7 years or so. Prior owner bought it and was verbally told the motor was rebuilt before he bought it, with no receipts. The guy I bought it from wasn't a porsche guy, he wanted a toyota.

When I bought the car, it was running 1.2 bar boost, andial intercooler, aftermarket intake, and some other go fast parts. I detuned it for longevity (1.2 bar seemed a bit much), put in a 0.7 boost spring, returned to stock intake. The motor was taken out of the car, leak down at that time, was <3-4% across the board supporting the engine rebuild theory.The motor was cleaned, seals I could get to replaced, rubber hoses replaced, etc. Car was driven on the street for several years, and then started doing DE in the beginners group and have done about 7-10 days of that with no issues. Car has been up to 120mph, braked fine, drove fine.

The body was and is about a 6-7/10, and appears to have no rust. I was told by the prior owner, who was told by the owner before him, that someone had backed into his left front wheel/area behind the wheel. The guy I bought it from showed me his title which was clean, and the title before his, which was also clean (I have both). I took it to a body shop, they said suspension was 1/2 inch off and they pulled it. They got it close, but not perfect. I replaced some of the sheet metal that was bent in the wheel arch. I have the car on a lift in my garage and anyone who is interested can look at it. The left front fender appears to have been replaced by the PO, as was the a-arm/strut.

Works fine as a cruiser/track car, but I would recommend you put it on a cellette bench. When I registered it I also got a unblemished title that makes no reference to prior issues. Carfax though shows that the car was declared salvage about 3 owners ago? The title is what it is, just being transparent.

Car has the following:
1) Custom roll bar
2) MSD ignition
3) Aftermarket fiberglass front and back bumpers to look like 964 turbo
4) New (<500 miles) RE11's tires and race pads
5)Custom made front oil cooler
6) Cobra race seats/back supports (I do have the original seats)
7) BBS wheels
8) Custom exhaust to fit the aftermarket valence
9) New rear struts
10) New front brake lines
11) PLX AFR meter
12) Aftermarket boost retard (stock is in place/but these freeze with time)
13) RUF aftermarket cosmetic stuff/steering wheel/badges/etc
14) Smog equipment is gone/probably has been for a long time
15) Airconditioning stuff is present
16) Engine bay Boost controller, set at 0.8 bar
17) Adjustable REV limiter set at 5700. Stock is 6700. I underset it for the track figuring it was an added cushion of safety while learning to drive on the track...Easy to set back to stock
18) Andial intercooler

This will never be a top level collector 930. But, for someone that can do the work themselves, this could be a fun project and a great way to get into a 930. Car was running very recently, and ran fine.

Here is what I know it needs:

1) 1 broken head stud.
2) Car ran rich under boost. Plugs look good, slightly dark. Was planning to adjust the WUR further, then found the broken head stud. Boost enrichment plug needs to be pushed in.
3) Replace rubber clutch? (Again, took the car out as I couldn't get into gear. Trans seems to work fine/spins/no debris on oil plug/etc). Clutch is suspected culprit/slipping?.
4) Addendum: 1 cam has a lot of pitting

Recommended
1) Put on a cellete...

Car would clearly be sold as is-where is. No guarantees.warranties, yada, yada.None of the above is to be misconstrued as a warranty or guaranty, and buyer is to make their own independent evaluation of the car and his/her own independent assessment of value /title/and mechanical condition. I would encourage a thorough evaluation on site (can't tow it, motor is out).

So, what do folks figure its worth as it sits? Or, should I fix it an drive it...? I know lots of folks drive with 1 bad head stud...sigh...

Addendum. Also the car isn't a RUF. PO put on a bunch of RUF badges and matts/steering wheel. If it were a RUF, we wouldn't have this thread....

bpu699 · 11:36 AM

Heres some pics as folks have asked...

Race seats are over 5 years, belts are new, has aluminum brace seat supports

bpu699 · 11:36 AM

Has 964 turbo body kit

bpu699 · 11:37 AM

Front cooler...

Hard to show the sheet metal that was replaced, call me for info will describe best I can... Pics she the area

more...

bpu699 · 07-22-2017, 11:34 AM

more...

bpu699 · 07-22-2017, 11:54 AM

If anyone is seriously interested, can give info over the phone...

If It were me, I would rebuild the whole top end (pretty much have to, to get to the stud). Also, found one cam is getting pitting...

I am pretty much done looking for issues

. Is what it is.

If I come to my senses all just fix the issues. If I can get a reasonable value...well. That would work too...

Input appreciated. Let me know a reasonable price....

bpu699 · 07-22-2017, 12:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pmax

Not a turbo guy here, I'll let the turbo boys chime in on values but .... the vice Testarossa, you giving up on it too ?

I do subscribe to the "If you broke it, you fix it" motto.

Keeping that for now... Just finished doing the major on that one this year...

Just looked on EBAY...930's are still asking pretty high prices... I am under no delusion that my care is a Grade A collectible...but geesh people are asking a lot...

Are 1987/1988 drivers really selling for $80-130k????

dg567 · 07-22-2017, 01:39 PM

40k max as it sits.

Matt Monson · 07-22-2017, 02:29 PM

Did you overrev it as suggested in your thread in the racing forum?

bpu699 · 07-22-2017, 02:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dg567

40k max as it sits.

Appreciate the honesty... everyones input appreciated...

Little nervous about even contemplating selling a non running car...never done that before.

This would be a great project for someone that wants to do their own work. I just don't want someone to buy it with the expectation that its a concours car, and $500 will get it back on the road.

But with the prices I see for these things, its definitely worth fixing...

Anyone else want to throw out some wild guesses on value?

Whats a fair price assuming at minimum it needs engine work and someone wants to put it on a Cellete?

Several folks have contacted me interested in the car. Of course the first question is the price. I really don't know whats a fair deal all the way around...

Still thinking about just rebuilding the top end this winter, but my wife is looking at me like I am a fool to contemplate it. I have spent a crazy amount of time on this car (yeah, I know thats all "free"

)... figure $10,000 in parts, a ton of weekends, and a bunch of cussing...

bpu699 · 03:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Matt Monson

Did you overrev it as suggested in your thread in the racing forum?

I did do a 3-2 shift rather than 3-4 in the past. My MSD rev limiter is set at 5700rpm (yes, I know that doesn't protect from an mechanical over rev), usually shift below this as RPM decays. RPM did goto about 7000 rpm, best I can tell.

The car was driven/tracked subsequently with no issue.

Last time at the track I couldn't find any gear suddenly. Took it out to check the trans. Found no debris in the case, gears spin, diff spins, trans shifts into all gear. One of the CV joints was seeping lots of grease, but seems "ok." Clutch is now the suspected issue best I can tell/havent removed it because I found the broken head stud. Anyone concerned and wishing to verify the gearbox works/spins should be able to do it as it sits outside the car.

Honestly, whether I keep the car or someone buys it, you might as well do a full reseal and check everything. You have the take the heads off to get to the head stud, and the cam has pitting as I mentioned. You might as well split the case/put in ARP/etc. Car was running fine when it was taken off the track. Car ran, motor ran, no smoke. The motor wasn't pulled for a suspected motor issue... The motor issue was more of a pleasant surprise once I started looking to adjust the valves...

Anyone seriously interested in the car, really ought to look at it. Come on out to Wisconsin... its nice and humid right now

.

Matt, the car is/was a good car. But it is now a project... Sigh. But as mentioned, it is what it is. Certainly recommend engine work, and the cellete.

I am more than willing to have folks/mechanics look at the car... If I end up selling, the buyer needs to be at a price they are comfortable with (that I can live with) for a car that needs work. I know the price has to reflect that uncertainty.

Trying to be honest, so no one is disappointed... At the same time, don't want to make the car sound like a terminal heap ready for the crusher, because that it isn't...

My wife keeps telling me she hasn't seen me this bummed in a while...

Alan L · Alan L's Garage

I can't help you much at the bottom of the world, as to values. But I would ask myself - will I miss the car. If the answer is yes, then, fix it. Obviously if you then decide later to sell it, the value has gone up, whatever. So you even get paid something for your time. From what you have described, I doubt you would be spending $10k, unless you fall down the slippery slope while in there. Replace all the studs? (depending what you have in there and for how long) get the valves freshened up (you may be able to DIY if recent rebuild is correct), replace or repair camshaft, renew clutch. Working on these cars is part of the enjoyment of owing a 30 yr old road rocket. I say the above having lost count of the number of times my engine has been out/apart. Always for mods etc.
Regards
Alan

jwasbury · 07-22-2017, 03:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dg567

40k max as it sits.

^I'd say you're generous. Bill Rudtner is accepting offers over $45k for this car http://forums.pelicanparts.com/911-930-turbo-super-charging-forum/960578-fs-930-935-a.html#post9666017

I go there if I wanted a 911 turbo track car. OP, I think the cage and seats +history (applaud your honesty) are going to hurt you selling this as is. I'd say your best bet is to fix the engine, pull the seats and cage and make it a proper street car again. That will appeal to the widest market. Right now its a "tweener" car as a streetable track car and the audience for that sort of thing is rather limited.

dg567 · 07-22-2017, 03:10 PM

Yeah I might have been generous with that - it's going to take a lot of work to get that car back to normal. Driver 930s are around for sub 70k if you look. It's going to take a lot of money to get that car up to bring a driver. Better off buying one for 70k and saving yourself the time and headache of rebuilding this car. That car has Alot going against it IMO - those rear quarter vents and 964 parts have to go IMO

bpu699 · 07-22-2017, 03:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jwasbury

^I'd say you're generous. Bill Rudtner is accepting offers over $45k for this car http://forums.pelicanparts.com/911-930-turbo-super-charging-forum/960578-fs-930-935-a.html#post9666017

I go there if I wanted a 911 turbo track car. OP, I think the cage and seats +history (applaud your honesty) are going to hurt you selling this as is. I'd say your best bet is to fix the engine, pull the seats and cage and make it a proper street car again. That will appeal to the widest market. Right now its a "tweener" car as a streetable track car and the audience for that sort of thing is rather limited.

I hear you...

Car has a roll bar, not a cage, if that makes a difference... It can be unscrewed and taken out.

Original seats come with...

This was one of those car I never planned to sell... just getting tired. I am trying to be brutally honest, as I have been on here a long time...

If I fix it, it stays a HPDE track car...

So, what dollar amount do you figure its worth? Go ahead... be honest. I figure anyone buying it would keep it as a track car...

Just weighing my options...

bpu699 · 07-22-2017, 03:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alan L

I can't help you much at the bottom of the world, as to values. But I would ask myself - will I miss the car. If the answer is yes, then, fix it. Obviously if you then decide later to sell it, the value has gone up, whatever. So you even get paid something for your time. From what you have described, I doubt you would be spending $10k, unless you fall down the slippery slope while in there. Replace all the studs? (depending what you have in there and for how long) get the valves freshened up (you may be able to DIY if recent rebuild is correct), replace or repair camshaft, renew clutch. Working on these cars is part of the enjoyment of owing a 30 yr old road rocket. I say the above having lost count of the number of times my engine has been out/apart. Always for mods etc.
Regards
Alan

I don't think it would be $10k either... but it would be a whole bunch of weekends...

What do you figure to split the case/new bearings/ARP bolts?

jwasbury · 07-22-2017, 03:37 PM

Data point: I bought an '87 with a cage, sparco seats, harness, etc. It had met a guardrail on track 2 different times. Owner was very wealthy, had it repaired properly.
That car had 120k miles but documented rebuild. here is the car:https://asbury.smugmug.com/By-Land/87-930-GPW/ I acquired it for 25k a couple years back. I think the market has cooled a bit since then, especially for less than perfect or non-stock examples.

I'd say your car as it sits right now isn't worth more than that.

Quote:

Originally Posted by bpu699

I hear you...

Car has a roll bar, not a cage, if that makes a difference... It can be unscrewed and taken out.

Original seats come with...

This was one of those car I never planned to sell... just getting tired. I am trying to be brutally honest, as I have been on here a long time...

If I fix it, it stays a HPDE track car...

So, what dollar amount do you figure its worth? Go ahead... be honest. I figure anyone buying it would keep it as a track car...

Just weighing my options...

bpu699 · 07-22-2017, 04:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jwasbury

Data point: I bought an '87 with a cage, sparco seats, harness, etc. It had met a guardrail on track 2 different times. Owner was very wealthy, had it repaired properly.
That car had 120k miles but documented rebuild. here is the car:https://asbury.smugmug.com/By-Land/87-930-GPW/ I acquired it for 25k a couple years back. I think the market has cooled a bit since then, especially for less than perfect or non-stock examples.

I'd say your car as it sits right now isn't worth more than that.

I think you got the deal of the century

.... Respect your input.

Not sure, just guessing, but at $25k I suspect it would sell in moments on eBay or bring a trailer....

JacobS911 · JacobS911's Garage

Put it on Ebay - 50k Buy it now with the option for buyers to make offers.

bpu699 · 07-22-2017, 04:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pmax

Is it still a fun hobby ? That's the question you need to answer.

If $10000 is a concern, then tracking a 930 is not the right hobby choice but then you just spent $$$ on a Ferrari.

Otherwise, suck it up and fix the darn car.

It's not the $10k. It's the time...

I spent last winter putting in the race seats and custom roll bar and oil cooler. That killed most of the winter...

Before that, did the major on the testarossa, that killed dozens of weekends...

Now, this. I feel I can competently fix whatever it is... I just know it takes...time...