PCA Tech Session at John Esposito's

[Unobtanium-inc]

Originally Posted by leety

Their lawyers have advised them not to engage in this thread. But for real ya'll have a hair pin trigger on a witch hunt with no facts. Chad's good at manipulating people, apparently.

That doesn't jive with what John said on S Registry, he said he has nothing to hide, yet he is hiding behind a lawyer. Do you know what happened here? Can you tell us? Like I said, right now the only "facts" are ones provided by Chad, and he showed pictures to back up his "facts". We have nothing from the other side other than general descriptions of John's stellar reputation and past work, but nothing concerning this car and this situation. If you know the real facts, please share them. Please get us all from being under Chad's spell for story-telling and myth-making, if that's what is really going on here.

---Adam

[leety]

Originally Posted by leety

It's not that difficult, since I was a kid, I've always enjoyed working on my own vehicles.

Nothing clapped out about my 2nd gen Dodge. You clearly know nothing about that sweet spot of towing machine engineering. I can pull a house off a foundation, while getting 20+ mpg. The newer Dodge Rams suck.

[Alan A]

Originally Posted by leety

Nothing clapped out about my 2nd gen Dodge. You clearly know nothing about that sweet spot of towing machine engineering. I can pull a house off a foundation, while getting 20+ mpg. The newer Dodge Rams suck.

How much bondo is in it?

[leety]

Originally Posted by Alan A

How much bondo is in it?

LOL who cares it's truck man.

[leety]

Originally Posted by Unobtanium-inc

That doesn't jive with what John said on S Registry, he said he has nothing to hide, yet he is hiding behind a lawyer. Do you know what happened here? Can you tell us? Like I said, right now the only "facts" are ones provided by Chad, and he showed pictures to back up his "facts". We have nothing from the other side other than general descriptions of John's stellar reputation and past work, but nothing concerning this car and this situation. If you know the real facts, please share them. Please get us all from being under Chad's spell for story-telling and myth-making, if that's what is really going on here.

---Adam

In addition to the lien sale on his car for non payment, there is a defamation of character suite being filed against Chad. How about you guys suspend your judgement until the legal actions take their course and see what the outcome is. How about letting the legal system do it's job and you people go do your jobs. :-)

[Alan A]

Originally Posted by leety

In addition to the lien sale on his car for non payment, there is a defamation of character suite being filed against Chad. How about you guys suspend your judgement until the legal actions take their course and see what the outcome is. How about letting the legal system do it's job and you people go do your jobs. :-)

This is way too much fun.

For full disclosure the OP lost me a few pages in when he brought religion into it. That's usually a tell for a charlatan (imo), but without any counter argument the photos paint a compelling picture.

And the question about bondo was to check your ability to judge restorations since you seem to be a happy customer...

[Matt Monson]

Originally Posted by Alan A

So those pictures of a car with more padding than a Kardashian don't fairly represent the vehicle?

Got any that do?

Because without a counter argument the OP is way ahead in the proof-of-work stakes.

Those pictures were May, months before Chad tried to take it back. It was when he was test fitting the cage. We have never seen the “ready for paint” condition of the car. Over and over posters ignore this. We don’t know how much of the punchlist was addressed.

[Matt Monson]

Originally Posted by leety

In addition to the lien sale on his car for non payment, there is a defamation of character suite being filed against Chad. How about you guys suspend your judgement until the legal actions take their course and see what the outcome is. How about letting the legal system do it's job and you people go do your jobs. :-)

It’s almost like I’m a good judge of how these things work. Thanks for your updates.

[leety]

You wan't some real facts, you should be able to get them from Chad himself.

All you have to do is ask the right questions:

Ask Chad for pictures of the car before he took it to John.

Ask Chad about the historical racing cachet of that car.

If he says it has that, make him prove it.

If not ask him why he would restore a car with so many issues that will never be worth that effort when complete?

If he won't show you that, then he's hiding behind his fables.

It's not that difficult.

[Alan A]

Originally Posted by Matt Monson

Those pictures were May, months before Chad tried to take it back. It was when he was test fitting the cage. We have never seen the “ready for paint” condition of the car. Over and over posters ignore this. We don’t know how much of the punchlist was addressed.

Right. I agree 100%

But without anything that says that isn't how it was presented to the client, this is the only thing that drives this whole nest of snakes

[Matt Monson]

Originally Posted by leety

You wan't some real facts, you should be able to get them from Chad himself.

All you have to do is ask the right questions:

Ask Chad for pictures of the car before he took it to John.

Ask Chad about the historical racing cachet of that car.

If he says it has that, make him prove it.

If not ask him why he would restore a car with so many issues that will never be worth that effort when complete?

If he won't show you that, then he's hiding behind his fables.

It's not that difficult.

I’ve requested both and been roundly rebuffed. I was told the vin is none of my business because the car is not for sale. I called the no provenance thing pretty early on.

I would also remind members Chad had 4 posts when this started. Why is Chad trustworthy but Leety is a shill?

[leety]

Originally Posted by Alan A

Right. I agree 100%

But without anything that says that isn't how it was presented to the client, this is the only thing that drives this whole nest of snakes

I'm assuming Chad is a grown up. It's not the restoration shops job to verify weather or not it makes sense to restore the car you bring to them or not. That is the job of the grown up taking the car to be restored.

Some people overspend a restoration for purely emotional reasons, like the black car that's on the rack right now. Dude proposed to his wife in that car and they consummated their marriage in that car. Many years later they are still married. It makes no economic sense to restore that car, but dude wants it done, who is John to deny him that? That's not his place.

I saw a 911 cash, t-boned at Reinsport Reunion in 2015. The roll cage saved the driver's life. It was bad, really bad!! These guys https://retro-sport.com/about restored the car, and let me tell you it wasn't cheap. I saw it when it happened, I saw it while they had it torn apart and I saw the finished project. It was no small task. That particular car has documented race history from day one. If not that car would have become a part carcass.

Chad's car should have been a parts carcass. There wan't much left of it that was usable. His bad, no one else. He's not a victim but he want's to play like he is and manipulate people in to his pathology to gang up on John. Not sure why I'm the only one who can see through this type of crap, but I can. It's both a gift and a curse. This type of behavior really annoys me.

[leety]

Originally Posted by Matt Monson

I’ve requested both and been roundly rebuffed. I was told the vin is none of my business because the car is not for sale. I called the no provenance thing pretty early on.

I would also remind members Chad had 4 posts when this started. Why is Chad trustworthy but Leety is a shill?

LOL Becuase I'm a girl standing up against a dude with more money than brains? I hear people don't like that to much :-)

[Don A.]

Originally Posted by leety

I'm assuming Chad is a grown up. It's not the restoration shops job to verify weather or not it makes sense to restore the car you bring to them or not. That is the job of the grown up taking the car to be restored.

Some people overspend a restoration for purely emotional reasons, like the black car that's on the rack right now. Dude proposed to his wife in that car and they consummated their marriage in that car. Many years later they are still married. It makes no economic sense to restore that car, but dude wants it done, who is John to deny him that? That's not his place.

I saw a 911 cash, t-boned at Reinsport Reunion in 2015. The roll cage saved the driver's life. It was bad, really bad!! These guys https://retro-sport.com/about restored the car, and let me tell you it wasn't cheap. I saw it when it happened, I saw it while they had it torn apart and I saw the finished project. It was no small task. That particular car has documented race history from day one. If not that car would have become a part carcass.



Chad's car should have been a parts carcass. There wan't much left of it that was usable. His bad, no one else. He's not a victim but he want's to play like he is and manipulate people in to his pathology to gang up on John. Not sure why I'm the only one who can see through this type of crap, but I can. It's both a gift and a curse. This type of behavior really annoys me.

If this car was just a 912, run over by two trains and if Chad was the worse customer one could imagine your buddy John should have either fixed it properly or not taken the job. It really is that simple.

Race history or not, poor condition or not JE took the job on and gladly took in a large sum of money for scabby welds on patched panels covered in thick bondo. Who is anyone to say what someone wants restored for their own reasons. You may need to seek the facts. The 20k ransom being sought has still to this day not been billed. If it has been post it here otherwise you posturing for John just looks bad.

[dwelle]

Originally Posted by leety

But for real ya'll have a hair pin trigger on a witch hunt with no facts.

careful. you are painting with a very broad brush there. you are referring to a few, not the many.

and your posts aren't helping anyone.



this crap needs to die. folks are arguing endlessly over something they know little to nothing about.

and the PO (who had like 4 posts in the for sale section before he dropped this bomb) dropped out a long time ago.

and it's none of our business.

this has nothing to do with marketplace discussion. the marketplace hasn't been discussed in some time because of this issue that concerns none of us save for the PO and JE.



why are we still indulging in this? it's a bad look for everyone....

[leety]

Originally Posted by Don A.

If this car was just a 912, run over by two trains and if Chad was the worse customer one could imagine your buddy John should have either fixed it properly or not taken the job. It really is that simple.

Race history or not, poor condition or not JE took the job on and gladly took in a large sum of money for scabby welds on patched panels covered in thick bondo. Who is anyone to say what someone wants restored for their own reasons. You may need to seek the facts. The 20k ransom being held has still to this day not been billed. If it has been post it here otherwise you posturing for John just looks bad.

I have not seen any pictures of welds can you please show me that? The picture of the car with the body filler was not at a paint ready state. That was a WIP and still work left to do on that. That was when he took the car to put the roll cage in half way through the process, prior to being paint ready.

He was billed, he signed a work order. There is a lein sale in process proving that. Again you are going off what your boy Chad said, which is not true.

[leety]

Originally Posted by leety

I have not seen any pictures of welds can you please show me that? The picture of the car with the body filler was not at a paint ready state. That was a WIP and still work left to do on that. That was when he took the car to put the roll cage in half way through the process, prior to being paint ready.

He was billed, he signed a work order. There is a lein sale in process proving that. Again you are going off what your boy Chad said, which is not true.

I grew up in a weld shop. I had to certify all the materials and welds with OSHA for Biosphere 2 in Arizona. That's crap load of welding. My ex was a welder. I know a thing or 2 about welding. John did some welds on my car and they were perfect. So whatever chad showed you was to further spin his false narrative.

I bet you the twin towers and building 3 were taken out by airplanes.

[Don A.]

Originally Posted by leety

I have not seen any pictures of welds can you please show me that? The picture of the car with the body filler was not at a paint ready state. That was a WIP and still work left to do on that. That was when he took the car to put the roll cage in half way through the process, prior to being paint ready.

He was billed, he signed a work order. There is a lein sale in process proving that. Again you are going off what your boy Chad said, which is not true.

I have seen the car. Have you? Do you think the rear quarters should have been scabbed on the way they were done? Look at the images in the other thread. If you think the welding is acceptable then with all respect you do not know enough to comment about the work done. Was this great work on display at the open house or was it hidden away?

[Unobtanium-inc]

Originally Posted by leety

You wan't some real facts, you should be able to get them from Chad himself.
Ask Chad about the historical racing cachet of that car.

.

I really wish someone would explain this. What is the supposed history of the car? What does that have to do with the work done?
Was the car sold to Chad as something it wasn't? Did he find that out deep into the restoration?

People keep beating around the bush about the car's history but no one will explain!

---Adam

[nathanbs]

Originally Posted by leety

He was billed, he signed a work order. There is a lein sale in process proving that. Again you are going off what your boy Chad said, which is not true.

Starting a lien sale doesn’t prove anything. It’s like me filing a restraining order against Madonna. If the lien is approved and goes through well then that’s completely different. The majority of the discussion has been us arguing amongst ourselves about theoreticals as grown men like to do apparently. I agree the facts that are going to be presented have been presented so let’s sit back and see what the legal system can resolve.