Thoughts on price for an ‘88 911

[trader220]

I read the original post again. You asked for thoughts on the car as an "investment".

The simple answer is none of these cars are good investments. Are they reasonable storers of value? Sure, they're not bad, plus you can enjoy them while you own them. Do I think G50 coupes will go up in value over time? Yes, I believe they will. I don't think you'll see the kind of appreciation they had in the 2013 to 2015 time frame. If you bought one in 2012 or early 2013 sure you made a decent return. If you bought one 15 years ago, sure you made a little money, but you'd have done much much better just buying an SandP 500 fund or ETF. Don't forget you don't have to pay insurance and maintenance or buy gas for an SandP fund.

The air cooled cars that are still bringing top top dollar are the special ones with low miles and well documented provenance.

The car you're taking about is a nice driver. Buy the car for $50k if thats the car you want. In the long haul whether you pay $48 or $52 is not a big deal. I am saying in sincere hope that the 2 to 4 grand price swing is not going to keep you from putting food on the table or a roof over your head.

If you're buying it because you hope its going to appreciate in value and make, as you say a "sound investment" then my 2 cents is don't buy it. Its not a sound investment. Buy it because you want it, and you're going to use and enjoy it, and you have the disposable income. If it makes a little money along the way, then consider it a bonus.

[specialtyoneinc]

Originally Posted by da Vinci Dan

I do not have any pictures yet as I am hung up on the firm asking price and the car is not officially for sale. I hope you will use your collective imagination to point me int he right direction. These are the vital stats:

- ‘88 Guards Red on Black
- 68K
- Every record since new. Current owner for last 17 years with one prior owner
- one mechanic for past 25 years.
- All original paint... every panel and bumper.
- 4 years and 6K ago: Full engine rebuild due to broken head studs, “refreshed” mechanically including all common electrical sensors, rebuild of all calipers/brakes/hoses, axle shafts, clutch, flywheel, AC, suspension... Asked to be made mechanically as new with no expense spared on all OE parts. $23K spent on refresh (all records)
- factory front and rear spoiler, sunroof, regular non-sport seats
- car is as close to original and perfect as can be expected.

Firm at $50k....

This is about $10K more than I wanted to spend but would pursue it if it is a sound “investment.” Thoughts are much appreciated.

Doesn’t sound like a bad deal to me if the car is tip top shape as described. Full engine rebuild is great piece of mind.

[pmax]

Originally Posted by Macroni

They can be purchased at a reasonable price it just takes a bit of vigilance and cat like decision making when the time comes.... Remind yourself if you have the time to consult the board on a purchase you are not getting a deal.....

I see it as wholesale vs retail.

Someone taking his time making a careful decision on a one time purchase for long term enjoyment is not likely to jump on an unknown car by an unknown seller before a "professional reseller" gets to it.

A pro can afford to lose on some buys if he wins on others and still make money at the end of the day.

[Matt Monson]

Originally Posted by pmax

I see it as wholesale vs retail.

Someone taking his time making a careful decision on a one time purchase for long term enjoyment is not likely to jump on an unknown car by an unknown seller before a "professional reseller" gets to it.

A pro can afford to lose on some buys if he wins on others and still make money at the end of the day.

A pro isn’t much of a pro if he makes many of those deals.

[trader220]

Originally Posted by pmax

luxsport is fine.

roflmao

[Macroni]

Originally Posted by pmax

I see it as wholesale vs retail.
Someone taking his time making a careful decision on a one time purchase for long term enjoyment is not likely to jump on an unknown car by an unknown seller before a "professional reseller" gets to it.

I do see your point. It is better to spend more time and money to get a great car then strike a quick deal and get an expensive problem.....

Hopefully, a well informed Pelican, especially a regular to the Marketplace Discussion Forum, will be in the position to know the tell-tail signs of a well kept, well priced Porsche. Given the historical questioning on this forum of the professional flippers there are many here more knowledgable and better positioned to jump on a car priced to sell...... I wish I knew about this forum when I purchased my first 911....

I come from the school of thought that as long as you know and are comfortable with what you need to commit in resources to bring the car to your level of desire; there are no bad Porsche 911s..... everything can be re-built to as new.

[da Vinci Dan]

Originally Posted by trader220

If you're buying it because you hope its going to appreciate in value and make, as you say a "sound investment" then my 2 cents is don't buy it. Its not a sound investment. Buy it because you want it, and you're going to use and enjoy it, and you have the disposable income. If it makes a little money along the way, then consider it a bonus.

I wish I never used the word, “investment,” but I did. Like most here, I wish to advoid a poor decision by purchasing an overpriced car. The money is disposable. However, I’m fortunate enough to be in a position to make a decision like this because I value the dollar and try to take emotions out of the equation as much as possible.

Please keep the comments coming. I’m thinking of the blk/balk g50 that sold on BAT in the fall for $50k and change as a good comparable.

[thamlin000]

$50k for the OP car as described is a fair price.

[McLovin]

Originally Posted by da Vinci Dan

I’m thinking of the blk/balk g50 that sold on BAT in the fall for $50k and change as a good comparable.

I wouldn't rely too much on BAT sales as comparables. People tend to overpay there, because:

(1) they don't really understand how it works (many people think the cars are vetted by BAT for quality or for the representations made, and that's not true - it's just eBay with a bogus comment section, see below), and

(2) the auctions are "sanitized"/rigged in that BAT secretly deletes critical or negative comments, because they are obviously seller-biased (the more the car sells for, the more they make, esp. when it comes to meeting reserves). People generally don't know that, so they think that all the positive, and very few negative, comments is "organic" or real. It is not.

[Macroni]

Originally Posted by McLovin

(2) the auctions are "sanitized"/rigged in that BAT secretly deletes critical or negative comments, because they are obviously seller-biased (the more the car sells for, the more they make, esp. when it comes to meeting reserves). People generally don't know that, so they think that all the positive, and very few negative, comments is "organic" or real. It is not.

How can you collaborate this claim........

[McLovin]

They've deleted mine, so I know. There were also some others that slipped by last week where posters specifically complained about their critical comments being "sanitized" (their term, not mine).
It makes sense. BAT is a seller of cars. They profit from the false perceptions that they've cultivated, but fawning comments are good for biz and critical comments are not. IMO.

[trader220]

I have sold a couple of cars on BAT and had not noticed any comments being deleted. There were a number of comments I felt were unfair and uninformed which I would have appreciated being taken down but BAT let everything up.

[wgwollet]

BaT only list comments about the car that is positive
If negative comments come they screen them out because it could effect the auction
But in defense of BaT it makes sense because comments are not based on any facts
Plus auctions like this tend to hipe up the cars like at Barrick Jackson auctions and high fees for seller and buyer, it’s how they run the business and pay expenses

I was following a 993 on BaT and people just bid you to stupid money
Some people have not realized Porsche’s peaked in 2015 generally and prices have been flat and/or lower

[wgwollet]

No BaT does not even post bad comments in the first place so how would you know?
It’s a fact they done it to many people I know.

[McLovin]

Originally Posted by wgwollet

No BaT does not even post bad comments in the first place so how would you know?
It’s a fact they done it to many people I know.

Exactly.

[McLovin]

Originally Posted by wgwollet

BaT only list comments about the car that is positive
If negative comments come they screen them out because it could effect the auction
But in defense of BaT it makes sense because comments are not based on any facts

yep, they screen negative comments out before they ever hit the screen. I know that for a fact. And, they are getting more and more aggressive with the screening.

That includes negative comments that are based in fact. For example, a car is worth less because it had a poorly done color change repaint, etc. If a beater $25,000 '76 911 sold for $100,000 and you posted "Wow, that was a crazy high price" it would get screened out.

[McLovin]

They also write the text and it's been reported that they will pressure sellers to keep out or downplay negative information that could hurt sales, such as the extent of the damage from prior accidents, etc.

It is, in my opinion, a typical sleezy used car operation, that is capitalizing on the good reputation they developed during the time they weren't selling cars. They are clever, though. They write the ads, putting in and leaving out what they want (to maximize their commission) but then attempt to take no responsibility for any of the representations (and omissions) made in the ads.

[Nader]

Huh? They had a Honda S2000 that was advertised as having a minor fender bender, but clean Carfax, including all repair invoices. I discovered and posted that there was a line item in one of the invoices for several hours on a frame rack. It got over 40 "likes."

[da Vinci Dan]

With a bit of back and forth completed, I will be moving ahead with the purchase of the red ‘88. I will be doing the old fly in and drive home bit in a few weeks. I’ve searched and read Jack Olson and Walter’s post on recommendations for a pre-trip list but am wondering if there is another one out there for a 3.2 car you all would recommend. It’s just 800 miles from Atlanta to Northeast PA. So far my list includes:

Full ppi
New fluids, check tire pressures, windshield washer etc...
Alternator wrench (factory tool kit with lug wrench)
Belts
Plugs
Wires
Working spare / pump
DME

Other items?

Any recommendations on shops if needed as I’m going through Charlotte, Roanoke, Hagerstown, MD, Gettysburg, PA?

I wanted to keeep this thread alive since it started here but perhaps it should be moved to tech... I will Post another one there on recommendations for my personal inspection. Thanks guys.

[Macroni]

Congratulations...... you shouldn't need anything more than a AAA card in case of emergency but there won't be..... an 88 911 3.2 was one of the most reliable Porsches ever built.