Amelia Island Auctions--Which One

[MichaelB]

I sold my 1979 930 (in a unique PTS color) with Gooding in Scottsdale 2017. The car was a 8+ out of 10 (only demerit because it had a high quality repaint many years ago). I was at the auction then (and this year too) and watched the market closely for a year prior.

Let me also say that I attempted to sell the car on BaT, and via several Internet ads before cosigning with Gooding.

My Bat Experience was good, but the car did not meet reserve. You have to have thick skin to deal with the BaT audience, however with that said I had a good run.

My impression is that the real buyers are most likely at the auction.

There are loads of photo collectors out there, and even more tire kickers. Selling a car like this can become difficult because "buyers" have a hard time believing that the car is actually as nice as you will claim. Well educated buyers understand the cars well, and they get it, but they are few & far between. Most of the others seem to assume you are exaggerating the condition & therefore you never realize a sale. Its an odd phenomenon. People are SO use to being potentially scammed it has become their default assumption that they are. A really nice car (like yours & mine) become harder to sell because of all the junk that sold prior to ours.

At the auction its a crap shoot. When my car sold there was another 1979 with a lot of issues. However it was Grand Prix white with Pasha interior and because of that it brought more money than mine. My car was a 50k mile stunner. Perfect original interior with sport seats, records since new, all matching numbers, everything functioned as it did when new, drove impeccably. It sold for $115.5. The other white '79 showed lower mileage (undocumented), A/C was broken, gauges were fogged, engine leaked, interior re-done, probably a 7 out of 10 at its best. It sold for $140's. The prices were flipped flopped. It should have gone the other way, but on that day... It didn't.

Its hard to stand there at the auction & watch people look at the cars. Most just treat them as "things". Getting in & out with no intension of ever bidding. Additionally Gooding strips the cars of anything not glued down. The ashtray, the radio knobs, the cig lighter, valve stem caps, gear knobs... I really dislike that as it makes the car look awful. Most passersby understand but I still hear observers saying "its missing the ash tray" as they walk around. I mean really? Are people stealing bits at a high-line auction? I guess they are.

Anyhow I have sold a few cars through Gooding & I would do it again. But (this is the big thing so listen up) be prepared to feel as if you did not have a chance to "represent" the car to anyone well. You will not get to cover the special nuances that the car may have - wth anyone. It will strictly sell on its merits as it sits. With little to no input from you. If you think that it will do well that way, then go forward with it. If the car needs explaining to get the most out of it / then the auction scene may not be for you.

[1979-930]

^^^ I remember that and the prices were flip flopped. Things that make you go Hmmmm??

[specialtyoneinc]

Originally Posted by MichaelB

I sold my 1979 930 (in a unique PTS color) with Gooding in Scottsdale 2017. The car was a 8+ out of 10 (only demerit because it had a high quality repaint many years ago). I was at the auction then (and this year too) and watched the market closely for a year prior.

Let me also say that I attempted to sell the car on BaT, and via several Internet ads before cosigning with Gooding.

My Bat Experience was good, but the car did not meet reserve. You have to have thick skin to deal with the BaT audience, however with that said I had a good run.

My impression is that the real buyers are most likely at the auction.

There are loads of photo collectors out there, and even more tire kickers. Selling a car like this can become difficult because "buyers" have a hard time believing that the car is actually as nice as you will claim. Well educated buyers understand the cars well, and they get it, but they are few & far between. Most of the others seem to assume you are exaggerating the condition & therefore you never realize a sale. Its an odd phenomenon. People are SO use to being potentially scammed it has become their default assumption that they are. A really nice car (like yours & mine) become harder to sell because of all the junk that sold prior to ours.

At the auction its a crap shoot. When my car sold there was another 1979 with a lot of issues. However it was Grand Prix white with Pasha interior and because of that it brought more money than mine. My car was a 50k mile stunner. Perfect original interior with sport seats, records since new, all matching numbers, everything functioned as it did when new, drove impeccably. It sold for $115.5. The other white '79 showed lower mileage (undocumented), A/C was broken, gauges were fogged, engine leaked, interior re-done, probably a 7 out of 10 at its best. It sold for $140's. The prices were flipped flopped. It should have gone the other way, but on that day... It didn't.

Its hard to stand there at the auction & watch people look at the cars. Most just treat them as "things". Getting in & out with no intension of ever bidding. Additionally Gooding strips the cars of anything not glued down. The ashtray, the radio knobs, the cig lighter, valve stem caps, gear knobs... I really dislike that as it makes the car look awful. Most passersby understand but I still hear observers saying "its missing the ash tray" as they walk around. I mean really? Are people stealing bits at a high-line auction? I guess they are.

Anyhow I have sold a few cars through Gooding & I would do it again. But (this is the big thing so listen up) be prepared to feel as if you did not have a chance to "represent" the car to anyone well. You will not get to cover the special nuances that the car may have - wth anyone. It will strictly sell on its merits as it sits. With little to no input from you. If you think that it will do well that way, then go forward with it. If the car needs explaining to get the most out of it / then the auction scene may not be for you.

Thank you for sharing your 1st hand experience. I've know people that have lost their pants on cars and have hit home runs on others. It's all part of the game. Auctions are probably the best & quickest way to get top dollar if you have a true #1 or #2 condition car. Especially when you are dealing with 6 figure cars.

Did you get to negotiate your sellers fee?

Here are the two results.

https://www.goodingco.com/vehicle/1979-porsche-930-4/

https://www.goodingco.com/vehicle/1979-porsche-930-5/

[voitureltd]

Over the decades my home runs @ auctions have been buying, not selling. Good luck Charles, if you downsize just now. Florida is close so maybe not to expensive to test the waters w/ a +$150K reserve. My surprises in the past have been with post sales. I even paid an auction co from a post sale part of the commission as their buyer did not meet the reserve when offered the sale day. And yes stay with your car and with a extra set of keys lock it up when you are not there to avoid the possibility of some things being missing. Think of the entry fees as an advertising expense. Also if not sold, some buyers may have second thoughts or need to free up more $$$ before buying. Your car is rare and highly desirable in many ways, so not many opportunities for one like yours.

[MichaelB]

Originally Posted by specialtyoneinc

Thank you for sharing your 1st hand experience. I've know people that have lost their pants on cars and have hit home runs on others. It's all part of the game. Auctions are probably the best & quickest way to get top dollar if you have a true #1 or #2 condition car. Especially when you are dealing with 6 figure cars.

Did you get to negotiate your sellers fee?

Gooding & I have a good relationship that started in 2011. With that said I have been able to negotiate a favorable sellers fee when presenting my cars to them. That is mainly because my cars always meet their expectations in terms of quality & condition. They get no surprises when working with me both buying & selling.

BTW... The unique Seinfeld 930 sale represented the market. My car probably did too. We all wanted & expected more, but it was just not reality at that time.

I do want to make one last comment. You can stand around and patiently talk with the crowd for certain. But you cannot have a spare set of keys & continually tend to the vehicle (as in locking it up when you go etc). That is just not how the Gooding scene works. They have auction reps well versed in the selection willing to help with their customer flow. The sellers participation is at best secondary.

[voitureltd]

^^^^^^^^^^^
They have auction reps well versed in the selection willing to help with their customer flow. The sellers participation is at best secondary'
HUH? Maybe for some sellers however I doubt few of them know more about the car than most long time enthusiast owners do.

I always take a second set of keys with or without the auction Co's approval and stay with the car(s) to represent and answer questions from interested buyers, from when the gates/doors open for buyers inspection and till they close. Do you really want people in and out of your ( perfect or near perfect) car and messing with things that many know little about without being present? I don't. Some people have little respect for others things. I want my car back exactly as it was if it does not sell.

[MichaelB]

Anthony. It really matters very little how you would like to be personally treated by the auction company. My example is exactly how it is done at Gooding. Your experiences at other less-premium auctions may vary - but my notes above are exactly how it is done at Gooding. The seller gets no options. If you do not agree with that - then you go to another venue.

And you simply misunderstand the statement of the Gooding staff. Again, they are there to assist THEIR customers (please understand the customer is not YOURS). And their staff has been well versed in all of their selections. Do they know everything? Not hardly. But they do know EXACTLY how David Gooding wants the potential customer handled, and they know EXACTY what the auction house wants them to talk about with the buyers. THAT is how a high-line auction house is run. You (the seller) are a secondary asset.

And that comes form a seller that has bought & sold hundreds of thousands of dollars worth of vehicles with them and knows how & why it is done.

[voitureltd]

Originally Posted by MichaelB

Anthony. It really matters very little how you would like to be personally treated by the auction company. My example is exactly how it is done at Gooding. Your experiences at other less-premium auctions may vary - but my notes above are exactly how it is done at Gooding. The seller gets no options. If you do not agree with that - then you go to another venue.

And you simply misunderstand the statement of the Gooding staff. Again, they are there to assist THEIR customers (please understand the customer is not YOURS). And their staff has been well versed in all of their selections. Do they know everything? Not hardly. But they do know EXACTLY how David Gooding wants the potential customer handled, and they know EXACTY what the auction house wants them to talk about with the buyers. THAT is how a high-line auction house is run. You (the seller) are a secondary asset.

And that comes form a seller that has bought & sold hundreds of thousands of dollars worth of vehicles with them and knows how & why it is done.

Thanks, good to know. As I previously mentioned, in the past decades, I have usually been a buyer or have taken customers ( high end ) cars for auction to expertly and honestly represent and returned to my customer, in as consigned condition, if not sold. So yes, I doubt I will ever use Goodings services. with those conditions, if inforsed.

[pmax]

Originally Posted by MichaelB

I sold my 1979 930 (in a unique PTS color) with Gooding in Scottsdale 2017. The car was a 8+ out of 10 (only demerit because it had a high quality repaint many years ago). I was at the auction then (and this year too) and watched the market closely for a year prior.
...

At the auction its a crap shoot. When my car sold there was another 1979 with a lot of issues. However it was Grand Prix white with Pasha interior and because of that it brought more money than mine. My car was a 50k mile stunner. Perfect original interior with sport seats, records since new, all matching numbers, everything functioned as it did when new, drove impeccably. It sold for $115.5. The other white '79 showed lower mileage (undocumented), A/C was broken, gauges were fogged, engine leaked, interior re-done, probably a 7 out of 10 at its best. It sold for $140's. The prices were flipped flopped. It should have gone the other way, but on that day... It didn't.

No, it wasn't.

You can fix a broken A/C but you can't "fix" a repaint.

https://www.goodingco.com/vehicle/1979-porsche-930-4/

https://www.goodingco.com/vehicle/1979-porsche-930-5/

[MichaelB]

Originally Posted by pmax

No, it wasn't.

You can fix a broken A/C but you can't "fix" a repaint.

pmax... Why don't you look at the whole picture? The Grand Prix white car had originally been configured with black interior per COA. Now it wore Pasha. And did anyone say that the Grand Prix white was not a repaint? Not to mention that the car was basically a mess in many other directions, yet you seem to defend it for some reason that escapes us all.

A quality 30 year old repaint of one car does not constitute your angst against a myriad of issues stacked to your height with another.

[zociety]

I typically sell/buy mine via BaT - a lot more "engaging" with the seller, prices seem to be a lot more stable, and a lot more honest

[pmax]

Originally Posted by MichaelB

pmax... Why don't you look at the whole picture? The Grand Prix white car had originally been configured with black interior per COA. Now it wore Pasha. And did anyone say that the Grand Prix white was not a repaint? Not to mention that the car was basically a mess in many other directions, yet you seem to defend it for some reason that escapes us all.

A quality 30 year old repaint of one car does not constitute your angst against a myriad of issues stacked to your height with another.

The "experts" at Gooding estimated your car at $140-180K, the other $180-220K.

Makes sense to me. Not sure why you don't get it.

[MichaelB]

Originally Posted by pmax

The "experts" at Gooding estimated your car at $140-180K, the other $180-220K. Makes sense to me. Not sure why you don't get it.

Yeah its a real wonder... Maybe you had to ACTUALLY be there. That might have explained it to you. Perhaps not.

[sithot]

Turbo values took a hit post 2015. They were hot but got too hot. Lots of Turbos bought then are underwater. Acquaintance with an auction house tells me he gets calls weekly if not daily about a Turbo someone wants to sell. Personally, I'd hold it until the smoke clears. Makes no sense to throw in with those who are running for the door.
There is no shortage of inventory.

[speednme1]

Originally Posted by specialtyoneinc

Agreed. So basically on that Gooding example above the seller would of net around $105k after all of their fees (10% seller fee plus transport and detailing etc...)

He probably would have gotten more money for it had he had sold it on his own. BJ called me once on a car that I was selling. I laughed at their proposal. I sold it on my own for full ask. The auction house fees can be ridiculous for a private seller (and buyer). 10% from the buyer, 10% from the seller plus shipping fees, registration fees and misc... This is why BAT has become very successful..

[hindsight]

My Slantnose will be at the Bonhams auction this week. So far it has been a decent experience and the fees are negotiable. I am not sure that the contract allows me to discuss the fee specifically but you can always PM me if you are super curious....lets just say that the entry fee and sellers fee are both negotiable....I think Bonhams has been very fair though.

https://www.bonhams.com/auctions/25219/lot/219/

The entry fee includes a photographer coming to you....this needs to be done a few weeks before the auction and cannot be done inside (tough call for us since it was snowing almost every day we tried to get the shots done).

Some other misc "fees" apply though. Obviously the car will need to be detailed extensively....the interior, I did myself as it was mostly just time consuming and in my wheelhouse. I elected to have the car detailed and serviced at Stalltek before going to auction. It was detailed everywhere else with special attention not to disturb the originality of the car.....not inexpensive by any means.

Transport was $1400 from Iowa, Bonhams piad for that and it will be deducted at the end.

All in all.....you need to plan about 4 months ahead. organize your records and provenance, etc.

I will report how the auction goes as I will be there for the event.

Andrew

[robertmark]

Originally Posted by Matt Monson

Why didn't you mention that he sold more than a dozen at the same time?

Not really sure that sale or no sale matters on something like that. Point of my post was to suggest that Porsche buyers attend that show. A well priced and presented car will sell. Not knowing the specifics I have no idea which of Jerry's cars were no sales and why.

As I remember it everything sold except his Carrera GT. So I would consider the auction a success. Except for the Speedster which is now the elephant in the room.

[cellison]

Originally Posted by hindsight

My Slantnose will be at the Bonhams auction this week. So far it has been a decent experience and the fees are negotiable. I am not sure that the contract allows me to discuss the fee specifically but you can always PM me if you are super curious....lets just say that the entry fee and sellers fee are both negotiable....I think Bonhams has been very fair though.

https://www.bonhams.com/auctions/25219/lot/219/

The entry fee includes a photographer coming to you....this needs to be done a few weeks before the auction and cannot be done inside (tough call for us since it was snowing almost every day we tried to get the shots done).

Some other misc "fees" apply though. Obviously the car will need to be detailed extensively....the interior, I did myself as it was mostly just time consuming and in my wheelhouse. I elected to have the car detailed and serviced at Stalltek before going to auction. It was detailed everywhere else with special attention not to disturb the originality of the car.....not inexpensive by any means.

Transport was $1400 from Iowa, Bonhams piad for that and it will be deducted at the end.

All in all.....you need to plan about 4 months ahead. organize your records and provenance, etc.

I will report how the auction goes as I will be there for the event.

Andrew

Loos likes a nice car Andrew. Good luck with it.

[Mocker]

From looking at the images and description of Andrew's car, it appears that Bonhams has vastly improved the description and details of cars they're auctioning since MichaelB's experience less than two years ago.

One little picture and two sentences to describe a car? What am I missing?!

[JMS935]

Originally Posted by hindsight

My Slantnose will be at the Bonhams auction this week. So far it has been a decent experience and the fees are negotiable. I am not sure that the contract allows me to discuss the fee specifically but you can always PM me if you are super curious....lets just say that the entry fee and sellers fee are both negotiable....I think Bonhams has been very fair though.

https://www.bonhams.com/auctions/25219/lot/219/

The entry fee includes a photographer coming to you....this needs to be done a few weeks before the auction and cannot be done inside (tough call for us since it was snowing almost every day we tried to get the shots done).

Some other misc "fees" apply though. Obviously the car will need to be detailed extensively....the interior, I did myself as it was mostly just time consuming and in my wheelhouse. I elected to have the car detailed and serviced at Stalltek before going to auction. It was detailed everywhere else with special attention not to disturb the originality of the car.....not inexpensive by any means.

Transport was $1400 from Iowa, Bonhams piad for that and it will be deducted at the end.

All in all.....you need to plan about 4 months ahead. organize your records and provenance, etc.

I will report how the auction goes as I will be there for the event.

Andrew

While unusual to shoot it in the snow, I think the contrast against the guards red makes the paint look really good. One thing I’m always stumped by, is why aren’t convertibles ever shot with the top up? Not many listings ever show them with the top up, I don’t get that at all. That’s a flaw I’ve come to notice with most convertible listings. Especially on the slantnose turbo cab, I think it looks even better with the top up. Anyways, good luck with the sale Andrew.