What am I missing from this 964 purchase? (pic & info heavy topic)

[SalParadise]

I've been a huge Carrera 4 fan since I drove a new one in 1989. It's an icon.

I love the color of this car. Mileage does bother me, because in my mind (and I wanted one for many years when the price was very low and they were not desirable) - they are fragile, and these years are not the best quality years for Porsche. Not to be all doom and gloom, but these things need to be maintained, and most importantly - many design flaws need to be worked on.

Failed because of rust? Maybe it was a bad day at the DMV inspector site and someone didn't bring them the donuts. This should be easy to check compared to the complex system of AWD.

Many of these were repaired by people who knew nothing about them. Many were driven in rust belt areas. I'm a huge fan, but there are a ton of things that need checking before I would consider a purchase.

Depending on the price, there are others out there. Maybe not in this color, but there are others.

[RAF Jay]

Originally Posted by SalParadise

I've been a huge Carrera 4 fan since I drove a new one in 1989. It's an icon.

I love the color of this car. Mileage does bother me, because in my mind (and I wanted one for many years when the price was very low and they were not desirable) - they are fragile, and these years are not the best quality years for Porsche. Not to be all doom and gloom, but these things need to be maintained, and most importantly - many design flaws need to be worked on.

Failed because of rust? Maybe it was a bad day at the DMV inspector site and someone didn't bring them the donuts. This should be easy to check compared to the complex system of AWD.

Many of these were repaired by people who knew nothing about them. Many were driven in rust belt areas. I'm a huge fan, but there are a ton of things that need checking before I would consider a purchase.

Depending on the price, there are others out there. Maybe not in this color, but there are others.

Thanks for the reply.

I was under the impression that the 964 was actually fairly robust in general? .. I'm aware that they have some design flaws, but I'd of thought that after this long most of them will have been fettled and those left will be known to mechanics to fix easy enough.

The rust repairs should be fine - easy to check and easy to spot something quick/cheap. I'm not sure if there's an easy way to check the AWD system though?

The price is pretty much as low as they go - The cheapest 964's (with some bodywork issues, high mileage, possibly not even an engine rebuild) start around £35-40k over here, and this is in that price range - considering the work and the condition, I feel it's a pretty good price. I do like the colour too.

[SalParadise]

Originally Posted by RAF Jay

The rust repairs should be fine - easy to check and easy to spot something quick/cheap. I'm not sure if there's an easy way to check the AWD system though?

Yes, two easy things. Drive it. And make sure ALL the warning lights come up and go off. Make sure they are not disconnected - I have seen some that had the lights disconnected and if they were not the whole dash would be a Christmas tree.

Simple things like reading the 964 Carrera 4 owner's manual goes a long way. That way you'll understand HOW something is supposed to work.

I want to make it clear is that I love these cars - the Carrera 4. The Carrera 2, not so much.

There are just so many red, white and black ones this color makes this example pop.

One thing is for sure though: This example must have had a modicum of correct maintenance to get it this far.

[RAF Jay]

Originally Posted by SalParadise

Yes, two easy things. Drive it. And make sure ALL the warning lights come up and go off. Make sure they are not disconnected - I have seen some that had the lights disconnected and if they were not the whole dash would be a Christmas tree.

Simple things like reading the 964 Carrera 4 owner's manual goes a long way. That way you'll understand HOW something is supposed to work.

I want to make it clear is that I love these cars - the Carrera 4. The Carrera 2, not so much.

There are just so many red, white and black ones this color makes this example pop.

One thing is for sure though: This example must have had a modicum of correct maintenance to get it this far.

I see the C2 > C4 argument everywhere (which sways my decision making) - out of interest why do you swing the other way?


I'll aim to do that, you're right that it should have had a lot of looking after, so I'm looking forward to spending some time checking through the history/services

[SalParadise]

Originally Posted by RAF Jay

I see the C2 > C4 argument everywhere (which sways my decision making) - out of interest why do you swing the other way?

Just sentimentality. I drove a red one in 1989 that had 76 miles on the ODO. You never forget how a new one handles and smells - that's why. It gripped the road very well. It seemed like the ultimate 911 of the future - the Carrera 4. It seemed to really be on rails - and didn't scare me the way other 911s did when I was 18. I even loved the stock wheels.

I thought they really did a good job getting the 1989 Carrera 4 out the door. The world was in dark economic times, Porsche was holding on by a thread, the classic car market (especially with Ferraris) was starting to tank. It was a bold move.

I am not a 964 fan at all. I prefer the G body way over any 964. But in my heart there's a place for a Carrera 4.

[Matt Monson]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s1YuuBhteus

Not a 964 fan either, in fact I'm a bit of a hater. However, this is one special car. They just should have made more of them and sold them as an RS variant.

[RAF Jay]

Originally Posted by SalParadise

Just sentimentality. I drove a red one in 1989 that had 76 miles on the ODO. You never forget how a new one handles and smells - that's why. It gripped the road very well. It seemed like the ultimate 911 of the future - the Carrera 4. It seemed to really be on rails - and didn't scare me the way other 911s did when I was 18. I even loved the stock wheels.

I thought they really did a good job getting the 1989 Carrera 4 out the door. The world was in dark economic times, Porsche was holding on by a thread, the classic car market (especially with Ferraris) was starting to tank. It was a bold move.

I am not a 964 fan at all. I prefer the G body way over any 964. But in my heart there's a place for a Carrera 4.

I think I'm there with you - I'd take the G Body if I could, but it just doesn't lend itself to a daily driver at all well. I don't need anything fancy - my commute is fairly short - but the 964 just peeps it for comfort vs performance (I hope).. Otherwise I'm sticking to the 996 Turbo..

[Matt Monson]

996 turbo is so much more car. For equal money I would buy one every time over a 964. But then like I said, I'm a pseudo-hater.

[gearby]

Like you Sal, I drove a black 1989 C4 coupe with 6000 miles on it and my takeaway was very different. I had been working in a Porsche shop and had driven darn near every 911 up to that point. I was very disappointed in the C4. Massive low speed understeer when trying to accelerate hard out of a corner, lots of clutch slippage, car felt extremely heavy. It gave me a very detached feeling from the road. Of course that car still had its double Mass flywheel so the engine didn't rev in a way that reminded me of a Porsche. It wasn't slow but it just didn't have that 911 feel that I had grown accustomed to.
So unfortunately, yes I'm in the C2 camp. If you're not going to track it or road race it though you're probably okay, and I'm sure the car doesn't have its double Mass flywheel anymore. So yeah it will work well as a daily driver. RAF Jay, you're just going to have to drive it and see if you like it.

[SalParadise]

Originally Posted by gearby

Like you Sal, I drove a black 1989 C4 coupe with 6000 miles on it and my takeaway was very different. I had been working in a Porsche shop and had driven darn near every 911 up to that point. I was very disappointed in the C4. Massive low speed understeer when trying to accelerate hard out of a corner, lots of clutch slippage, car felt extremely heavy. It gave me a very detached feeling from the road. Of course that car still had its double Mass flywheel so the engine didn't rev in a way that reminded me of a Porsche. It wasn't slow but it just didn't have that 911 feel that I had grown accustomed to.
So unfortunately, yes I'm in the C2 camp. If you're not going to track it or road race it though you're probably okay, and I'm sure the car doesn't have its double Mass flywheel anymore. So yeah it will work well as a daily driver. RAF Jay, you're just going to have to drive it and see if you like it.

Yes, I could see all of this. I believe your description is much more accurate. Mine is more emotional. I was an '80s kid and thought that everyone was going to get better and better. It was the first new 911 I had ever driven, and for some 18-year-old it was a big deal. Obviously I was blinded by the shiny new paint, the new seats, and the refinement (or lack of) it all. I always remember it, but like most things - they are remembered fondly when compared to the ride of my '57 Bug or my 914.

I can see that the 964 would be considered better by some as a daily. But I think a G body is better for a daily - and better for everything.

The 964 is not my favorite car. If it were not for some dreamy ride I took in the C4, I would probably completely write them off. As I have said before, when I visited the Porsche factory in Dec. of 92 it was all doom and gloom - and you could see it in the workers faces as the 964s creaked down the line.

[SalParadise]

Originally Posted by Matt Monson

996 turbo is so much more car. For equal money I would buy one every time over a 964. But then like I said, I'm a pseudo-hater.

Matt is right on this. I would go this route as well. I have not looked at values as hard as I did one year ago (because I wanted one as well), but I have to tell you they are a terror on the street and very refined. The looks grow on you (though the wheels still have not on me), and it's a hard to beat package - considering some had such ridiculous and over-the-top window stickers that somehow went north of $186K or more.

[Flynt]

Originally Posted by SalParadise

Matt is right on this. I would go this route as well.

Funny how the advice has ended up here - OP has a 996TT!

The 964 looks like it's priced right now. Love the color combo. RAF Jay - why are you moving on from the current car? What are you looking to get out of a replacement? I do think you'd be happier in this car than the SC you posted earlier.

I went from a 92 964 C2 to a 996TT and as much as I love the 964, there's no way I'm going back. If I had to pick one Porsche around $40k, its the 996TT. My perspective is skewed because I went the other way.

[SalParadise]

Originally Posted by Flynt

Funny how the advice has ended up here - OP has a 996TT!

The 964 looks like it's priced right now. Love the color combo. RAF Jay - why are you moving on from the current car? What are you looking to get out of a replacement? I do think you'd be happier in this car than the SC you posted earlier.

I went from a 92 964 C2 to a 996TT and as much as I love the 964, there's no way I'm going back. If I had to pick one Porsche around $40k, its the 996TT. My perspective is skewed because I went the other way.

Really? Wow. Then I would skip on out on this Carrera 4 entirely.

I would not go back from a 996TT to a 964 either. To me it would be like going from a Supercar to a kit car. If I could get over myself I would probably sell my car and a couple other things and buy one. Thing for me is I'd have to get rid of those stock wheels and replace them with something. I just don't like the stock wheels - they look like they belong on a Boxster.

[Matt Monson]

Yes, I saw this first thread. I’m saying I couldn’t see selling a 996tt for a 964. I would be looking st g50 3.2 s instead. You can comfortably daily one.

[RAF Jay]

Originally Posted by Matt Monson

Yes, I saw this first thread. I’m saying I couldn’t see selling a 996tt for a 964. I would be looking st g50 3.2 s instead. You can comfortably daily one.

I'm hoping viewing this car and driving it will make a lot of things clearer... If it doesn't fill me with excitement then I'll walk away.

I would love to be able to drive one of those, but I don't think the ride is pleasant enough to convince the Mrs that we'll be able to do road trips in it.

Also, g50 3.2s appear to be more expensive than a 964!

[Matt Monson]

My 72 year old father and 65 year old stepmother have been using a 3.2 Carrera as their daily driver for the last half a dozen years.

[RAF Jay]

Originally Posted by Matt Monson

My 72 year old father and 65 year old stepmother have been using a 3.2 Carrera as their daily driver for the last half a dozen years.

Maybe I need to get another test driver!

I really enjoyed the drive in the 964, it was honestly a lot more smooth than I expected and ran very well.

It started up first time, but the idle was a little low and it caused the car to stall a few times until the dealer gave it some time.

Gearbox felt nice, if a little stiff to get into second but that might be the nature of the box? It definitely didn't feel difficult, but it did need to be pulled in.

Need to think about whether it's worth going for one now, or waiting for more examples to come onto the market as there hasn't seemed to be much movement in the market over here in the UK