What am I missing from this 964 purchase? (pic & info heavy topic)

[RAF Jay]

So following from my previous post, the SC I went to look at was lovely, but I just don't think I could pull it off as a daily. I'm nibbling on the bottom of the 964 market and fancy a go at buying one.

The car in question is nearing 200k miles, so I'm aware things will be tired and need replacing. However, the car also benefits from a lot of recent work done, including an engine rebuild ~24k miles ago (4 years) and a window-out respray (4 years ago).. The car looks gorgeous in person. I'm worried that it might have been "spruced up" too much, and it might be hiding a bunch of problems.

It was listed at £45k for a few months, and has just been reduced to £40k. Automatic estimates put this car at £32k - although I wonder if that's not taking into account recent work done.

Should I be put off by the high mileage? It's kind of a turn on, and I'll be putting miles on the car all year round, but I realise I might be buying a money trap waiting to bite.

Key Work carried out:

• Engine rebuild, 24k miles ago, ~£7k/$10k (receipt of work carried out here - is this considered fairly comprehensive?)
• Mar 2017 - Rust cut out of several areas of the car, respray, rebuild ~£5k/$7k
• Jul 2017 - New engine lid, struts, plug lead cover, spoiler transmission, new rear bumper brackets, roof rattle fix, weather relay fix, front brake backplates, corroded fuel lines, suspension springs replaced £5k/$7k

Car history looks good, it had some structural corrosion in 2007 which must have been fixed, but other than that it's the usual "fails" on MOT such as springs, head lamps, that sort of thing.

All important photographs






















Thanks guys.

[RAF Jay]

2 more:

[Matt Monson]

Have you driven it yet, or any 964? It's a totally different beast. Yes, it's faster and more modern/comfortable. But it feels heavier to be personally is not quite so vintage 911. It tips into modern car territory, which may be what you want. Just something to consider.

Gorgeous color. That excites me. Rebuilt engine is nice. Probably going to need a lot of chassis based work going forward if it hasn't have a bunch of rubbers, struts, brakes, etc gone through yet. That is a lot of miles, but nothing the chassis can't handle. How about the gearbox? Has it ever been done?

[RAF Jay]

Originally Posted by Matt Monson

Have you driven it yet, or any 964? It's a totally different beast. Yes, it's faster and more modern/comfortable. But it feels heavier to be personally is not quite so vintage 911. It tips into modern car territory, which may be what you want. Just something to consider.

Gorgeous color. That excites me. Rebuilt engine is nice. Probably going to need a lot of chassis based work going forward if it hasn't have a bunch of rubbers, struts, brakes, etc gone through yet. That is a lot of miles, but nothing the chassis can't handle. How about the gearbox? Has it ever been done?

Hey Matt.


I haven't driven one yet - I'll take this out for a spin and see how it feels. I am worried about the heaviness, especially the C4, but proof will be in the pudding. The SC felt really nice, albeit a little unpowered, so I'm hoping this car feels somewhere between the SC and the 996 (hopefully closer to the SC...)

The rubbers/perishables will be my main concern, they're a PITA to work on. Brakes have been done, suspension has been done although it doesn't say to what standard. No news on the gearbox - what sort of mileage do they begin needing a rebuild? Anything I should look out for? Notchy gear changes? Having to double clutch? I'm under the impression the G50 should feel nice (and nicer than the 915 I drove a few days ago)

[Matt Monson]

Oops, I missed that it is a C4. Walk if he doesn’t have 8-10k in tranny receipts. There are all kinds of C4 only things that will be big money to repair when they go.

There is a rumor Colin at 9m is working out a 2wd conversion kit. I passed on developing it for him because I don’t think the market is there. He might be making it without my help.

[specialtyoneinc]

Looks like a clean 200k car from the pictures. Definitely look into all the rust repair. Engine rebuild is a major bonus. Did they machine the heads? Go drive it. It's really different (in 911 terms) than a SC especially with the AWD system. A sorted G50 should feel way more modern and precise than a 915. 964 coupes are probably the hottest 911s in the states these days.

[RAF Jay]

Originally Posted by Matt Monson

Oops, I missed that it is a C4. Walk if he doesn’t have 8-10k in tranny receipts. There are all kinds of C4 only things that will be big money to repair when they go.

There is a rumor Colin at 9m is working out a 2wd conversion kit. I passed on developing it for him because I don’t think the market is there. He might be making it without my help.

I guess the whole AWD system in general is prone to failure? Or are they fairly reliable? There's a few garages over in the UK that do the conversion, but it costs 5-10k depending how far you want it to go


What sort of issues should I look at when shifting through the gears?

As far as I know, there isn't any receipt of gearbox work

[RAF Jay]

Originally Posted by specialtyoneinc

Looks like a clean 200k car from the pictures. Definitely look into all the rust repair. Engine rebuild is a major bonus. Did they machine the heads? Go drive it. It's really different (in 911 terms) than a SC especially with the AWD system. A sorted G50 should feel way more modern and precise than a 915. 964 coupes are probably the hottest 911s in the states these days.

I'm not sure, unfortunately the garage that did the work (a reputable place) closed down. I imagine it'll be hard to track down exactly what work was done - the link is all I have - the 2nd page is 4x new brakes and an RS clutch kit.


They're certainly popular here, although there's a lot less SC's around in comparison (probably our terrible weather!)

Which I guess brings me onto my next question, assuming I don't drive on salt/snow covered roads, how often will I be going in for rust repairs?

[specialtyoneinc]

Originally Posted by RAF Jay

I guess the whole AWD system in general is prone to failure? Or are they fairly reliable? There's a few garages over in the UK that do the conversion, but it costs 5-10k depending how far you want it to go


What sort of issues should I look at when shifting through the gears?

As far as I know, there isn't any receipt of gearbox work

I've heard the AWD system in the 964s are reliable but expensive to fix if something goes wrong (lots of moving parts). If you do a search on Rennlist there are plenty of threads with loads of info on the subject. As for the gearbox, feel/listen for any grinding or sticky gears. Sticky clutch also comes up sometimes on these. You should be able to rip through the gears on G50 unlike a 915 which takes a little patience and technique.

[specialtyoneinc]

Originally Posted by RAF Jay

I'm not sure, unfortunately the garage that did the work (a reputable place) closed down. I imagine it'll be hard to track down exactly what work was done - the link is all I have - the 2nd page is 4x new brakes and an RS clutch kit.


They're certainly popular here, although there's a lot less SC's around in comparison (probably our terrible weather!)

Which I guess brings me onto my next question, assuming I don't drive on salt/snow covered roads, how often will I be going in for rust repairs?

You shouldn't have to go in for rust repair, but since the car has had it in the past you should have a professional check out the repairs. Rust can turn into a nightmare if not properly repaired that is all. Cheers.

[RAF Jay]

Originally Posted by specialtyoneinc

I've heard the AWD system in the 964s are reliable but expensive to fix if something goes wrong (lots of moving parts). If you do a search on Rennlist there are plenty of threads with loads of info on the subject. As for the gearbox, feel/listen for any grinding or sticky gears. Sticky clutch also comes up sometimes on these. You should be able to rip through the gears on G50 unlike a 915 which takes a little patience and technique.

Okay, thanks. I'll get a good feel of the gearbox, ideally at low RPM when it's cold as I believe that's when the issues begin to show themselves.

[RAF Jay]

Originally Posted by specialtyoneinc

You shouldn't have to go in for rust repair, but since the car has had it in the past you should have a professional check out the repairs. Rust can turn into a nightmare if not properly repaired that is all. Cheers.

Okay, so just keeping on top of it will hopefully be okay? I had an NA Miata before this which would begin to rust after 2-3 years of use outside use.

I should be looking for pure metal repairs, no filler right? I've got a magnet, which I'll bring along, and assuming everything looks fine I'll get a good PPI to check over the entire car.

[Matt Monson]

Originally Posted by specialtyoneinc

I've heard the AWD system in the 964s are reliable but expensive to fix if something goes wrong (lots of moving parts). If you do a search on Rennlist there are plenty of threads with loads of info on the subject. As for the gearbox, feel/listen for any grinding or sticky gears. Sticky clutch also comes up sometimes on these. You should be able to rip through the gears on G50 unlike a 915 which takes a little patience and technique.

This. It is robust. It’s based on the 959 systems. It is part of how they amortized the costs of that car. The expensive bits are awd and differential based. It’s actuatirs and sensors, and clutch parts. It’s integrated with the abs too. The transmission portion is pretty straightforward. It’s a gearbox, does it shift. But does it howl? Any dash lights? Any weird jerks and lurched when you get on it hard? Be sure to get on it hard.

[RAF Jay]

Originally Posted by Matt Monson

This. It is robust. It’s based on the 959 systems. It is part of how they amortized the costs of that car. The expensive bits are awd and differential based. It’s actuatirs and sensors, and clutch parts. It’s integrated with the abs too. The transmission portion is pretty straightforward. It’s a gearbox, does it shift. But does it howl? Any dash lights? Any weird jerks and lurched when you get on it hard? Be sure to get on it hard.

Brilliant. I don't know if I'll be allowed to have a go on my own - it's not something that car salesmen are usually okay with (especially as I'm in my mid-20's) but maybe I can convince him!

I guess if possible I should try lose traction, and see if that throws up a wobbly?

[Matt Monson]

Yep.

[SkunkWorks]

That's a beautiful looking 964.

I've had both a 964 C4 and my SC (at the same time) and the 964 is my preferred daily, while the SC would be the preferred weekend car.

Those C4s are fairly robust cars. I don't have much to contribute that hasn't been mentioned already but mechanically it looks well-sorted, I'd be more inclined to dig deeper into the type of rust repairs done and how they were done.

[manbridge 74]

Receipt looks fairly comprehensive but it would be nice to chat with the guy who did the work to get a feel for what else he might have recommended that was denied by whomever was holding the purse strings.

Structural rust? What part of which structure?

The springs look to be H&R as I’ve just installed a set for a customer who’s building a 964 RS replica. These springs usually drop the rear an inch and front 3/4 inch (perhaps vice versa but a mild drop nonetheless). The car appears to sit to high if those are indeed the springs used. I would ask to make sure it was four wheel aligned. A good alignment makes a huge difference on these...

[RAF Jay]

Originally Posted by SkunkWorks

That's a beautiful looking 964.

I've had both a 964 C4 and my SC (at the same time) and the 964 is my preferred daily, while the SC would be the preferred weekend car.

Those C4s are fairly robust cars. I don't have much to contribute that hasn't been mentioned already but mechanically it looks well-sorted, I'd be more inclined to dig deeper into the type of rust repairs done and how they were done.

Thanks, that's sort of what I want to hear!

I've got a 1970s 240z that I use as a weekend toy, so I'm trying to make sure I don't end up buying something too similar to that!

[RAF Jay]

Originally Posted by manbridge 74

Receipt looks fairly comprehensive but it would be nice to chat with the guy who did the work to get a feel for what else he might have recommended that was denied by whomever was holding the purse strings.

Structural rust? What part of which structure?

The springs look to be H&R as I’ve just installed a set for a customer who’s building a 964 RS replica. These springs usually drop the rear an inch and front 3/4 inch (perhaps vice versa but a mild drop nonetheless). The car appears to sit to high if those are indeed the springs used. I would ask to make sure it was four wheel aligned. A good alignment makes a huge difference on these...

Unfortunately it doesn't say anything about where the rust was - just it failed a test 10 years ago due to the rust... By law they'd of had to get that fixed in order to have it pass the test. No mention of structural rust since then though, and it's had 10 more tests so that's a positive step I guess

I believe that's what the receipts show too. I'm talking to a company who might be able to offer the new H&R setup with some other goodies as part of a promotion they're having, so that might end up ticking that box anyway.

You're right it does seem to be sitting high - there's no receipt for an alignment but I can't believe you'd change the suspension and not get it geo'd

[NYNick]

Listen closely to Matt ad his transmission advice. This is what he does.

Boy, that car looks great for 200K!