1962 356 1600 s

[Racerbvd]

Originally Posted by Unobtanium-inc

Except this wasn't a "handshake" deal, the seller accepted payment. I get this all the time, I will have several "sold" cars on my lot awaiting shipment, usually to Europe. Someone will come out to look at another car and ask about one of the sold ones. They will offer more money. Nope, sold means sold. I tell them all the same thing, every man has a price for his good name, his honor, but I can guarantee you can't afford mine.
The seller sold his honor for $10,000, seems pretty cheap move on his part.

---Adam

Im the same way, integrity is worth way more than anybody would be willing to spend as I have to look who I look at myself in the mirror and decide who I want to be. If I don't like who's looking back at me because I'm pulling Shady deals like that accepted payment, then making a deal then turn around and backing up because someone's offered more and I too have been offered excess to resell to somebody else and break the deal and I never and I won't that's just not who I am my father raised me to have integrity.

[JJK78-951]

Originally Posted by Unobtanium-inc

Except this wasn't a "handshake" deal, the seller accepted payment. I get this all the time, I will have several "sold" cars on my lot awaiting shipment, usually to Europe. Someone will come out to look at another car and ask about one of the sold ones. They will offer more money. Nope, sold means sold. I tell them all the same thing, every man has a price for his good name, his honor, but I can guarantee you can't afford mine.
The seller sold his honor for $10,000, seems pretty cheap move on his part.

---Adam

I seemed to have misread the fact that a check was given and thought it was a handshake deal. That changes things if payment was accepted, my bad.

[350 SIX]

A deal is a deal, no matter how good or how bad.
All i got in this world is balls and my word.

I don't know how some people sleep at night

[JJK78-951]

Originally Posted by faapgar

Hey JJK78,I admire your love of Avarice and greed.I admire Adam from Unobtanium even more.At least he has a soul.Seller told me he paid $1500.00 for the car in 96 and would not deal with a tire kicker for less than $25K. I paid him and he had no soul.Maybe you guys should have a cocktail together.Actually just go to church and pray for forgiveness as it isEaster.Happy Easter to all the people on the Forum here.Ciao afred

I thought this was a handshake deal as I quickly read the thread - no need to be an ass.

[1979-930]

People with money can afford to have integrity.
You don’t know the other guys situation. $10k could be the world to him.


Sent from my iPhone while Driving

[Matt Monson]

Originally Posted by 350 SIX

A deal is a deal, no matter how good or how bad.
All i got in this world is balls and my word.

I don't know how some people sleep at night

With neither since a man who can't keep his word has no balls.

[Unobtanium-inc]

Originally Posted by SalParadise

Adam knows the game because he's learned the game. Someone with values and dignity will win the race - eventually. If Adam decided to sell his 'sold' stuff to higher bidders word would get out pretty quickly and there would be consequences in future business. This is just common sense.

I've left money on the table on a lot of things. Sometimes I wanted to get top dollar, other times I let things go for a fair price that was less than market. Sometimes it's not always about money (at least for me), but then again I've had that luxury of enjoying cool things and moving on - sometimes just breaking even.

Too bad Fred didn't get the car. Doesn't surprise me. I didn't want to think the way I did when he left the check. I suspected there would be shenanigans that would take place - and they did. It's what happens when something gets moneyed. People mine it out as well as their dignity. It all goes out the window.

I was at a race last fall and a guy walked up and introduced himself, said he had been looking for a 356, but was pretty sure he had been priced out of the market. I told him I could be on the lookout for him and he asked me a normal question, but it's kind of the way he asked that made me bristle. He asked why when I auctioned cars, they "always" went for more, implying I think, that there was something funny. I blankly looked at him, took his question at face value and proceeded to tell him that I had been doing this long enough to have my name known in the Porsche community as a stand up guy who is honest in my dealings and descriptions. When a guy on another continent is bidding on a car sight un-seen he knows it will arrive exactly as I described it, so he bids all the way, doesn't hold back like he would with someone else. Well, you get three guys bidding all out, and you can count on a higher return. I'm 43, have been doing this in the Porsche world for well over a decade, but Matt and I were doing this with Jetta's and GTI's when we were 17 and 19, so we know how to play the long game. I plan to be doing this when I'm 70, and the only way to do that is to do it right. Individual seller's going back on a deal happens all the time, and there is nothing those in the business can do, but when people in the business get funny, they find they get frozen out real quick, they usually move on to Vette's, or Jags, or something.

Here's an article I wrote about the long game vs. the short game, it's enlightening to those who might not see behind the curtain much.

https://www.pca.org/news/2017-03-28/barnfinding-long-game-vs-short-game

---Adam

[350 SIX]

Originally Posted by 1979-930

People with money can afford to have integrity.
You don’t know the other guys situation. $10k could be the world to him.


Sent from my iPhone while Driving

He gladly accepted 2 1/2 worlds and then lost his integrity to rule a 3rd.

[NYNick]

Originally Posted by 1979-930

People with money can afford to have integrity.
You don’t know the other guys situation. $10k could be the world to him.


Sent from my iPhone while Driving

My experience has been just the opposite. Those without money tend to value integrity more than those that do.

[ficke]

Just to clarify,
We do not have a problem here with flippers as long as they pay immediately for the item.
because a lot of people here were encouraging faapgar to make the flip on this car to them so obviously flipping is not a bad thing here morally.
So if the flipper had Paypaled the money to 'Rbarton" here http://forums.pelicanparts.com/porsche-marketplace-discussion/991737-part-flippers-unreal.html there would not have been a problem with the flip?

[Matt Monson]

Originally Posted by ficke

Just to clarify,
We do not have a problem here with flippers as long as they pay immediately for the item.
because a lot of people here were encouraging faapgar to make the flip on this car to them so obviously flipping is not a bad thing here morally.
So if the flipper had Paypaled the money to 'Rbarton" here http://forums.pelicanparts.com/porsche-marketplace-discussion/991737-part-flippers-unreal.html there would not have been a problem with the flip?

No, there would still be a problem.
1. Buyer said he needed them for his own car. False premise.
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/911-930-turbo-super-charging-forum/991189-im-looking-buy-rh-3-6-wheels-i-would-like-them-my-1992-965-a.html
2. Buyer/flipper used the seller’s photos to advertise and had not received nor inspected the parts. How do you sign your name to the condition of something you have never even seen?

[ficke]

Originally Posted by Matt Monson

No, there would still be a problem.
1. Buyer said he needed them for his own car. False premise.
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/911-930-turbo-super-charging-forum/991189-im-looking-buy-rh-3-6-wheels-i-would-like-them-my-1992-965-a.html
2. Buyer/flipper used the seller’s photos to advertise and had not received nor inspected the parts. How do you sign your name to the condition of something you have never even seen?

1. I do not know what 'faapgar' told the seller, was flipping the car disclosed to seller? was that 'faapgar's intent? was there a false premise to seller? certainly a lot of people here wanted him to flip the car.
2. if 'faapgar' flipped the 356 to one of the many willing buyers here who made offers it would have been cool since he saw it and inspected it first at the sellers house? He could have had the Pelican he sold it to make shipping arrangement from the sellers house, handy.

This just smacks like double standards to me. or at best very fine nuances that are not easily clarified.
Sounds like the high horse integrity harping depends on the side of the fence some people are sitting on.

[faapgar]

Car was never for me.It was to go to a prominent Pelican lady friend.I never reached out and discussed selling it to all that offered.Maybe I should have offered more than he asked but I was trying to find her the best starting point I could.Paint,interior & mechanicals would be $45-60,000 done right.You do not know the end number until you are working on it.I have never been a flipper.Fred

[Matt Monson]

Originally Posted by ficke

1. I do not know what 'faapgar' told the seller, was flipping the car disclosed to seller? was that 'faapgar's intent? was there a false premise to seller? certainly a lot of people here wanted him to flip the car.
2. if 'faapgar' flipped the 356 to one of the many willing buyers here who made offers it would have been cool since he saw it and inspected it first at the sellers house? He could have had the Pelican he sold it to make shipping arrangement from the sellers house, handy.

This just smacks like double standards to me. or at best very fine nuances that are not easily clarified.
Sounds like the high horse integrity harping depends on the side of the fence some people are sitting on.

I'm not commenting on Fred's situation. I am commenting on the poor example you made and answering the question you asked.

[ficke]

Originally Posted by Matt Monson

I'm not commenting on Fred's situation. I am commenting on the poor example you made and answering the question you asked.

They are the same thing, the only difference being who's point of view, buyer or seller.

[ficke]

Originally Posted by faapgar

Car was never for me.It was to go to a prominent Pelican lady friend.I never reached out and discussed selling it to all that offered.Maybe I should have offered more than he asked but I was trying to find her the best starting point I could.Paint,interior & mechanicals would be $45-60,000 done right.You do not know the end number until you are working on it.I have never been a flipper.Fred

How nice.
Here I thought there was profit involved on your part, either in the sell or work on the car to the end user, which obviously now is not you.
Well, that end user is in luck!
A project car rarely makes financial since, because most of the time you can buy one done for less and in less time be driving and owning your Porsche. Especially for a common car like a 356B.

A car like this is for the hobbyist who is not concerned with their time spent on the project since it will be for the fun of the work spent on it and they will be most assuredly be upside down in it.
This Pelican lady dodged a bullet and you do not have to work on a car for nothing.
How fortunate things work out in the end.

[Matt Monson]

Originally Posted by ficke

They are the same thing, the only difference being who's point of view, buyer or seller.

They aren’t the same thing at all. Helios lied to the whole community publicly. Fred did no such thing. You made several assumptions about Fred, including that he may have been misrepresenting himself to the seller. My point was, and remains, that there is nothing wrong with flipping if you are honest.

If Fred showed up, told some suck up story about how he had this exact car 40 years ago and had always regretted selling it and is so excited to find another to tinker on and drive in his retirement, etc etc then maybe your position would hold water. But Fred is an honest man as shown by numerous dealings around here.

If Fred had bought this car for a flip, I guarantee he would have gone through the car a bit, made sure it was on its feet and ready for the new owner. And then openly advertised it beauty marks, warts, and all.

[ficke]

Matt, I will apologize first to you and Fred for any perceived personal offense, that is not what I want to do.
But let's be clear and factual here about assumptions and morality.
The only way we know about Helios is the seller is a fellow pelican poster here and exposed him. Up until the time he was exposed by Rbarton, he was a honest man as shown by numerous dealings around here. If Rbarton, the seller, was not a poster here Helios would still be that cool guy selling some good wheels he got a deal on.
Fred's seller is not a poster here, we only know what Fred told us."If Fred showed up, told some suck up story about how he had this exact car 40 years ago and had always regretted selling it and is so excited to find another to tinker on and drive in his retirement, etc etc" This whole thing you typed is an assumption. I also assume that Fred is a good guy but I am not going to assume that 356 seller was a bad guy, I do not assume to know what happened. Reneging on a deal is a bad low life thing to do, but I really do not know or anyone else here but Fred the circumstances about that deal.

I do not want to hammer Fred, that is not my intent, but to question how quickly many here pass judgment of moral standing on flipping, etc. when they do not know the facts.
I have no problem with a honest flip and flipper, I have been on both sides of a flip.
Helios was exposed as a dishonest flipper.
We can only assume the seller in Fred's case was dishonest. We know Fred was flipping this 356, We also know he got a below market price by all the site unseen offers here. We do not know what Fred said to the seller to arrive at this below market price.
Just the facts.

[Matt Monson]

First post, Fred says the seller was asking $25k. You seem to be skipping that part.

[voitureltd]

Originally Posted by faapgar

.He is asking $25 K.Ciao Fred

??, Fred wrote him a check for his asking price.