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Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Carmel, IN
Posts: 33
Clutch adjustment or replace?

My '"new" 88 turbo (stock - 36k miles) ... which I just put $7000 into seems to have a clutch issue. Clutch engages pretty close to the end of the range of the pedal. Also "chatters" if I try to roll off too aggressively. The second gear synchro is not really doing it's job either.

Question is ... is there any point in trying to adjust the clutch or is it just time to pony up the $$ and get the clutch and synchro replaced?

Any Opinions? Thanks.
Chuck
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Charles "Chuck" Carter
'72 911 T
'88 TURBO
'99 Boxter
'04 Cayenne
Old 09-08-2007, 05:18 PM
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930s rule the wasteland
 
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88 might be hydralic if its chattering your flywheel is getting warped and looks like your headed for clutchville,ill be seeing you real soon because im squirling parts right now. shop around on all the parts because prices do differ and opinions on which setups differ also.
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1980 930 Turbo
1993 Corrado
1983 944
1984 944
2001 VW golf TDI
Old 09-08-2007, 05:22 PM
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930s rule the wasteland
 
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oh ya also sounds like 2nd gear synchros getting ready to tank,if they open it uphave them resynch the other gears and check the bearings.
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1980 930 Turbo
1993 Corrado
1983 944
1984 944
2001 VW golf TDI
Old 09-08-2007, 05:26 PM
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So you have to let the pedal nearly all the way up before the car moves forward?
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1981 UK 930. G50/01 shortened, 964 3.8RS Fibreglass Body Kit, 18" Alloys 8.5" F & 10" R, 225's F & 285's R, Special Colour Metallic Blue Paint, FIA Sparco Evo's, A/C and Air Pump removed, Electronic Boost Controller, GHL Headers, Tial46 WG.
Fitting - New service kit.
Needs Fitting - Innovate XD-16 Kit, Kokeln IC. Stephen's K27 HFS, EVO Intake Assy & his Modded USA Fuel Head.

1983 UK 911 3.2 Carrera Sport Coupe. Black, Black Leather with Red Piping, Black Alloy Gear Knob, K&N Air Filter Element, Turbo Tie rods.
Needs Fitting - K&N CO Sensor, Round A/F Dial Gauge, Factory Short Shift Kit.

http://www.danasoft.com/sig/Iamnotanumber.jpg
Old 09-11-2007, 01:29 AM
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That is correct.
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Charles "Chuck" Carter
'72 911 T
'88 TURBO
'99 Boxter
'04 Cayenne
Old 09-11-2007, 04:26 AM
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Oh dear, sounds like your synchro's are shot. You would be best to have the tranny stripped and checked for wear. Leaving it will do more damage to other parts. You can then also replace your clutch. The spring centered disc is a popular choice over the rubber centered part due to reliability.
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1981 UK 930. G50/01 shortened, 964 3.8RS Fibreglass Body Kit, 18" Alloys 8.5" F & 10" R, 225's F & 285's R, Special Colour Metallic Blue Paint, FIA Sparco Evo's, A/C and Air Pump removed, Electronic Boost Controller, GHL Headers, Tial46 WG.
Fitting - New service kit.
Needs Fitting - Innovate XD-16 Kit, Kokeln IC. Stephen's K27 HFS, EVO Intake Assy & his Modded USA Fuel Head.

1983 UK 911 3.2 Carrera Sport Coupe. Black, Black Leather with Red Piping, Black Alloy Gear Knob, K&N Air Filter Element, Turbo Tie rods.
Needs Fitting - K&N CO Sensor, Round A/F Dial Gauge, Factory Short Shift Kit.

http://www.danasoft.com/sig/Iamnotanumber.jpg
Old 09-11-2007, 11:27 AM
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Yea I think I'll just go ahead and get the clutch done and the gearbox fixed. Can't really drive the car very aggressively with those problems. Any thing else you can think of I should have done while the motor is out? Thanks for your help.

Chuck
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Charles "Chuck" Carter
'72 911 T
'88 TURBO
'99 Boxter
'04 Cayenne
Old 09-11-2007, 01:12 PM
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Smart quod bastardus
 
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Talk to someone about getting a lightened flywheel and clutch package while your in there. The problem I have with the 930 clutch is that it is very heavy and there is not alot of throttle response when revving the engine because of all the flywheel mass.
I had heard that going to a lightweight flywheel and spring pack clutch really livens up the response. This is on my wish list when I win the lotto.
The rubber centered OEM disc is a bad idea as well.
Old 09-11-2007, 01:53 PM
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I have just gone through a lightweight flywheel and race clutch experiment (with no prior experience with racing clutches and LWFWs).

I have taken my car back to the shop with the old heavier FW/Clutch (Spring centered Sachs)/PP and asked them to put them back.

The reasons are: Elimination of noise that the LWFW does not mask, get idle back to normal, get revving back to normal and return of the normal clutch operation without the grabby one piece race clutch. The last two points will make street driving less conspicuous and safer.

I think the LWFW/Race clutch package will be great for those who track their cars a lot. But for a street car, I will return to the more familiar behavior characteristics of the heavy FW and a normal spring centered Sachs clutch.

Here's the parts that I tried on:

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Olli Selander

1989 930 - 3.5l - M48 - G64/51
Old 09-12-2007, 10:03 AM
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Olli, do you think a LWFW would be good on a stock 3.2 carrera?
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1981 UK 930. G50/01 shortened, 964 3.8RS Fibreglass Body Kit, 18" Alloys 8.5" F & 10" R, 225's F & 285's R, Special Colour Metallic Blue Paint, FIA Sparco Evo's, A/C and Air Pump removed, Electronic Boost Controller, GHL Headers, Tial46 WG.
Fitting - New service kit.
Needs Fitting - Innovate XD-16 Kit, Kokeln IC. Stephen's K27 HFS, EVO Intake Assy & his Modded USA Fuel Head.

1983 UK 911 3.2 Carrera Sport Coupe. Black, Black Leather with Red Piping, Black Alloy Gear Knob, K&N Air Filter Element, Turbo Tie rods.
Needs Fitting - K&N CO Sensor, Round A/F Dial Gauge, Factory Short Shift Kit.

http://www.danasoft.com/sig/Iamnotanumber.jpg
Old 09-12-2007, 01:24 PM
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Nathan, from my limited experience the pro would be the quick revving up and the cons the possible transmission noise (as in my case) that a larger and heavier FW would normally mask and the idle will be affected as well.

I think the transmission noise was particularly noticeable in my car because it had been cut for the 6 speed transmission. On a 3.2 Carrera with the regular gearbox and soundproofing intact it might not be such an issue. The LWFW certainly makes the car lively, I would just never put a race clutch in a street car again, i.e. the whole package needs to work well together.
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Olli Selander

1989 930 - 3.5l - M48 - G64/51
Old 09-12-2007, 05:01 PM
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Thanks for your reply Olli. I haven't done these type of mods to a car as I only like to do things that have no cons.
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1981 UK 930. G50/01 shortened, 964 3.8RS Fibreglass Body Kit, 18" Alloys 8.5" F & 10" R, 225's F & 285's R, Special Colour Metallic Blue Paint, FIA Sparco Evo's, A/C and Air Pump removed, Electronic Boost Controller, GHL Headers, Tial46 WG.
Fitting - New service kit.
Needs Fitting - Innovate XD-16 Kit, Kokeln IC. Stephen's K27 HFS, EVO Intake Assy & his Modded USA Fuel Head.

1983 UK 911 3.2 Carrera Sport Coupe. Black, Black Leather with Red Piping, Black Alloy Gear Knob, K&N Air Filter Element, Turbo Tie rods.
Needs Fitting - K&N CO Sensor, Round A/F Dial Gauge, Factory Short Shift Kit.

http://www.danasoft.com/sig/Iamnotanumber.jpg
Old 09-13-2007, 02:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NathanUK View Post
Thanks for your reply Olli. I haven't done these type of mods to a car as I only like to do things that have no cons.
Good plan! For myself, it sounded like a good idea at the time and I just had to learn it the hard way....but no biggie, at least now I know to be more careful about what I wish for.....
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Olli Selander

1989 930 - 3.5l - M48 - G64/51
Old 09-13-2007, 05:42 AM
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OFF THE BOOST PIPE NOW...
 
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The Doc has always said the 930 like the heavier stock clutch. Maybe it idles better and as Olli mentions, the vibration/noise.
Old 09-13-2007, 06:34 PM
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I still might consider it for my 3.2 carrera. I had it all apart recently and didn't go for it though due to wondering about the negatives, same reason I didn't go for stiffer engine/tranny mounts. One thing I did do which I am pleased with is removal of an aftermarket short shift kit & replaced it with the factory kit.
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1981 UK 930. G50/01 shortened, 964 3.8RS Fibreglass Body Kit, 18" Alloys 8.5" F & 10" R, 225's F & 285's R, Special Colour Metallic Blue Paint, FIA Sparco Evo's, A/C and Air Pump removed, Electronic Boost Controller, GHL Headers, Tial46 WG.
Fitting - New service kit.
Needs Fitting - Innovate XD-16 Kit, Kokeln IC. Stephen's K27 HFS, EVO Intake Assy & his Modded USA Fuel Head.

1983 UK 911 3.2 Carrera Sport Coupe. Black, Black Leather with Red Piping, Black Alloy Gear Knob, K&N Air Filter Element, Turbo Tie rods.
Needs Fitting - K&N CO Sensor, Round A/F Dial Gauge, Factory Short Shift Kit.

http://www.danasoft.com/sig/Iamnotanumber.jpg
Old 09-14-2007, 03:44 PM
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930s rule the wasteland
 
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hey am i ok with a stock flywheel,stock disc and lightend pressure plate?
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1980 930 Turbo
1993 Corrado
1983 944
1984 944
2001 VW golf TDI
Old 09-15-2007, 04:58 AM
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I would think so.
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1981 UK 930. G50/01 shortened, 964 3.8RS Fibreglass Body Kit, 18" Alloys 8.5" F & 10" R, 225's F & 285's R, Special Colour Metallic Blue Paint, FIA Sparco Evo's, A/C and Air Pump removed, Electronic Boost Controller, GHL Headers, Tial46 WG.
Fitting - New service kit.
Needs Fitting - Innovate XD-16 Kit, Kokeln IC. Stephen's K27 HFS, EVO Intake Assy & his Modded USA Fuel Head.

1983 UK 911 3.2 Carrera Sport Coupe. Black, Black Leather with Red Piping, Black Alloy Gear Knob, K&N Air Filter Element, Turbo Tie rods.
Needs Fitting - K&N CO Sensor, Round A/F Dial Gauge, Factory Short Shift Kit.

http://www.danasoft.com/sig/Iamnotanumber.jpg
Old 09-15-2007, 01:05 PM
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Bruce Eyring
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Lilburn, Ga.
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clutch in '88 930

I have a 1988 930 which I bought in 1999 with 44,000 miles...now has 211500 miles on it (that's 211500). I can tell you the stock Sachs unit is no good. The disk is OK...not the problem....but the stock pressure plate is 2600 lbs. new.....and at about 25,000 miles will start to slip...get on the boost and the rpm's go but you don't. By 32,000...it's pretty well done. The problem is that the Sachs pressure starts loosing clamp almost from new. The answer is a Kennedy Engineered Products assembly. Mine has 79,000 miles on it and it is the same as the day installed. It is the only answer out there...trust me! email me at budgetmh@bellsouth.net and I'll give you details....
Old 10-10-2007, 07:38 PM
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I am running the Centerforce lightweight pressure plate and disk in my car. I'm quite happy with it. It is smooth on engagement and seems to rev well. It's been in the car since 2004 and the dyno run from about that time shows 340 hp at the wheels.

I have actually been thinking about a light flywheel. Olli, are you returning those parts or looking for a new home for them? Some days I am both brave *and* crazy...

Oops, I just realized that your car is an '89. We may not share common clutch parts. I'll have a look this evening.
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Andy Glass
'86 930 Kokeln IC, K27-7200, SC cams, GHL headers, Fabspeed muffler, Short R&P , misc other mistakes made...
Old 10-10-2007, 08:37 PM
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88 has stock 4-speed and wire-operated clutch. Try to adjust the clutch first. 2:nd gear synchro is engine-out job though. You might as well do the clutch when everything is out. Chatter is probably rubber-damped disc job cracking. Replace it with spring-damped one.
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Thank you for your time,
Old 10-10-2007, 11:47 PM
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