Digital WUR

[964 T #304]

Look in engine fourm for (74 Project )and you will see more info. about the digital wur in Bryan Beaumont's post

[Craig 930 RS]

No -

Guessing about the ease of 'programming'.
Guessing that 'is it better than other options'.

It's all conjecture at this point until we see a live product rather than the current vaporware -

[911nut]

Originally Posted by 964 T #304

Look in engine fourm for (74 Project )and you will see more info. about the digital wur in Bryan Beaumont's post

Negative on the search function. Please post a link to the thread.

[RarlyL8]

It's all conjecture at this point until we see a live product rather than the current vaporware -

I don't know exactly what you mean. Several posters, including myself, have seen live products, they just aren't offered for sale (yet).

[Craig 930 RS]

See, feel, what I meant was USE.

[964 T #304]

See if this works. http://fourms.pelicanparts.com/showthread.phpt=2888188/highlite=intercooler=sleeper[/URL]

[Craig 930 RS]

No workie -

[964 T #304]

Criag, go to a post on this forum page about "930 without a wing" then go to the second post by 125 Shifter and open the first thread on his post and go to page #2 and post # 25 . This is the only way i can tell you to get there . It is about a digital wur that came from Turbokraft . The same car is on their web site

[equality72521]

This?

Intercooler (big), under a Ducktail...

http://www.turbokraft.com/

[Ag02M5]

I talked to Neil a few times but needed to get the car running after months of down time. Went with Leask's and it runs great out of the box.

And that guy talking about the digiWUR is from 06...still no real product.

[930gt-40r]

Originally Posted by RarlyL8

You can build a complete EFI from injectors to ECU to throttle body for $2000?
The metering plate does not seem to be an issue up to 500CHP.
Unless EFI can do better than 25mpg fuel mileage is not an issue.
The digital WUR will have the capability to manage a few extra things but that isn't the point. For the folks who want to retain CIS this is huge. $1000 is chump change when compared to the cost and setup of EFI.
It's all about options for CIS. That is the target demographic.

With enough patients with Ejunk and my two hands, I could get a system going for two G- just not the blingy shiney one that everyone wants.
I had a Cis car and the fuel mileage can made to look good on the highway, but decreases drasticly with any variation like stop and go. And I like to run more than 500 at the crank- (427 C5 vettes don't play with much less).
Now I didn't say this is a bad product and I for damn sure wish that it was around when I had CIS, but EFI saved Porsches for me- it was like driving my first Fast Porsche. This product most defenatly has an undeniable market.

[930gt-40r]

Originally Posted by 911nut

930gt,
Please post more info on your system; which components you use from Accel, ect.
Thanks.

Accell DFI Gen. 7 (for Buick Grand National)
Accell Dual Sync. Distributer (so cool and so easy)
3.2 plenum
Gt-2 cams
96' twin turbo crank (3.6)
pauter rods
STOCK pistons and cylinders
custom 4" intercooler
Garret GT-37R dual ball bearing turbo --------For sale
Tial 46mm wastegate-----------------------------For sale
Modified B&B's--------------------------------------For sale
Accufab 75mm throttle body

This is my entire setup and the stuff thats not Accel (all hardware) is the reason for going to EFI- with out it, I would not be able to use any of it save for the crank and rods.

[RarlyL8]

I wouldn't bother commenting on something unless I have either seen in use first hand or actually used myself. If you can't tell I have a definite opinoin on this subject and it ain't from readin' second hand info on the internet.

Do you remember the thread several weeks back discussing cams where I posted the findings of a friend who was extensively exploring CIS engine combos? You cannot do that without also extensively exploring the WUR. Along with a half dozen cams and turbos he also tried out various adjustable WURs and a digital WUR.

There is nothing difficult about the operation of a digital input WUR. It's simply manipulation of the normal inputs that operate the WUR, fuel pressure, temperature, electricity, vacuum, and boost.

It is true that none of that makes any difference, no digi-WURs that I am aware of are currently available for sale. Once they do become available we will see many posting on impressions.

[WERK I]

Originally Posted by Craig 930 RS

Seems we've been hearing this level of (lack of) development on this digital WUR deal for a few years now.......

The lack of progress is unnerving and rather untimely. Until we see this device in practical use, any conjecturing or analysis is just guesses -

There certainly is no conjecture on my part. But.....and it's a big but, we have to get off this wagon of trying to find the Holy Grail of plug-and-play injector controllers. The WUR is nothing more than a mechanical version of an ECU with fewer inputs(vacuum, boost, temperature) compared to an ECU. If you want to tune your digital WUR engine with a wideband Innovate, you can certainly tune an EFI'd engine. As the old programmer's adage goes, "garbarge in, garbage out".

[911nut]

Originally Posted by 930gt-40r

Accell DFI Gen. 7 (for Buick Grand National)
Accell Dual Sync. Distributer (so cool and so easy)
3.2 plenum
Gt-2 cams
96' twin turbo crank (3.6)
pauter rods
STOCK pistons and cylinders
custom 4" intercooler
Garret GT-37R dual ball bearing turbo --------For sale
Tial 46mm wastegate-----------------------------For sale
Modified B&B's--------------------------------------For sale
Accufab 75mm throttle body

This is my entire setup and the stuff thats not Accel (all hardware) is the reason for going to EFI- with out it, I would not be able to use any of it save for the crank and rods.

You did this for 2 grand?
I like the idea of using the 3.2 intake but that throws you into a custom I/C, right?
What did you do about the port mismatch between the intake and stock heads (assuming that you started out with stock heads)?
So what does your displacement end up being with the 3.6 crank and stock cylinders?

[930gt-40r]

Originally Posted by 911nut

You did this for 2 grand?
I like the idea of using the 3.2 intake but that throws you into a custom I/C, right?
What did you do about the port mismatch between the intake and stock heads (assuming that you started out with stock heads)?
So what does your displacement end up being with the 3.6 crank and stock cylinders?

F%^K no! It took me a bunch more money than that- I was just saying that if I wanted to I could EFI a car for under 2 G's. Im talking about a stock motor with used stand alone and hand skill.

My heads I had welded, machine, and finally ported at Verdan tool. I also had to have them shave a little off the leading edge of my piston ring lands ( I think 1MM). The inter cooler is the last I/C I will ever buy because I have never seen a better one for a Porsche let alone one that fits under a stock wing. I used a 1000 hp Spearco core and had Miller Race Car make the end tanks for it.
As for the displacement, I believe that it comes to a little less than 3.4 but it gives her a noticeable kick in the low end.

[911nut]

Can you post a couple of pictures for us?

[DonE]

Originally Posted by DDDD

....


It will be worth the wait as a decent alternative to EFI.

.....

Excuse me???!!!

More accurately, it will improve CIS tuning greatly.

[DonE]

Originally Posted by WERK-I

There certainly is no conjecture on my part. But.....and it's a big but, we have to get off this wagon of trying to find the Holy Grail of plug-and-play injector controllers. The WUR is nothing more than a mechanical version of an ECU with fewer inputs(vacuum, boost, temperature) compared to an ECU. If you want to tune your digital WUR engine with a wideband Innovate, you can certainly tune an EFI'd engine. As the old programmer's adage goes, "garbarge in, garbage out".

Reading these posts are so frustrating. I agree on Dave's comment about the Holy Grail and I pity the poor bastard out there sitting on the fence, trying to decide on spending more money on CIS with the latest WUR or go EFI. The two systems are completely different in the way they work, and they produce very different results. Brian is right when he says that the CIS is a fuel delivery system and a true EFI conversion is an engine management system. I would say CIS is primitive compared to today's EFI options, however CIS is still very effective.

For example, yesterday morning was cold, so I decided to go out and set the inlet air temp correction table, since most of my tuning has been in the 70 degree temp range (yesterday was 35). I found that I had to add about 1.5% more fuel to precisely achieve the desired AFR in EVERY throttle position. Now that it's set, I'm done and never have to come back to it. Try that with CIS.

About a week ago, I re-set the idle to reflect an AFR of 15 to help keep the plugs clean and idle smoother. The way I did it was adjust timing, idle solenoid position and fuel. Again, not with CIS.

And my last and favorite example of the differences is throttle response using fueling tables, ignition tables, accel enrichment tables and even boost tables. Don't look for this flexibility or performance gains on any CIS. But it comes with a cost.

I guess my point is that CIS is incredibly competent on its own and does not need to be compared to an EFI conversion - if you do, you are fooling yourself and mis-leading others. Level 1 is CIS up to 400 hp. Level 2 is EFI and is 300hp and more. I think if the digital WUR does surface, and they charge $1000, it'll be under-priced, and worth every dollar (at least with Neil Harvey's unit, which I've never seen). At the very minimum, I had to tune my WUR twice per year (cold and warm weather) and each time it took about half a day to dial it in correctly - and what a pain in the a$$. If it can be done through a laptop, and not have to go to the WUR for each adjustment, that would be great.

If you don't want to pay the rumored $1000 for the digital WUR, then learn to adjust it yourself with a fuel pressure gauge and a wide band AFR. Or buy Brian L's unit. CIS is a great system, but you can throw a lot of money at it and never achieve the performance levels an EFI conversion can deliver.

[964 T #304]

B.S. . My CSI car will kick your's A$$ !