just bought dream 930

[poorsche930]

I just bought my dream car. I'm 30 years old and had a poster on my wall as a kid of this car. Everything was great!

I had my friend doing plugs, wires, fuel filter etc, on the car. When he noticed a backed off head nut and the washer jammed between the top of the spark plug and the head!

Im trying to look at this situation an optomisticly as possible. Now I know the engine, can replace all the old hoses, seals, upgrade to carrera tensioners, new clutch and maybe a lightened flywheel. So maybe this is a good thing, but I just diddnt need it to happen this soon.

[Rory Mckenna]

Did you have a PPI?.. it'll be ok.. it happens.. don't let this get you down.
You own the best 911 made. You know you have to post a picture for us.

[fredmeister]

It is possible that the washer was a victim of "falling down into the engine during service/rebuild syndrome"?
Check all the head studs for torque and look for corrosion on them as well, if they seem rusted or surface damage replace them before they break and cause real damage.
If you got the engine out for a clutch might as well go thru its head studs and other impossible stuff when installed in the car. Do a valve adustment while its out too, lots easier at that time.

Great purchase, they are an awesome car.
Here is mine........

[sand_man]

Hi, and welcome. So are you saying you've got a broken head stud? Tell us more about the car. Year? Must predate the oil fed tensioner change over? Mileage? Any mods? What has the maintenance been like? Ever had a top end rebuild?

You are standing on a slippery slope! There are lots of other things I'd be thinking about before a lightened flywheel, if you have to go into that engine! ARP head-studs, ARP rod bolts, fully finned cylinders (maybe).

But before all of that, give us some more info...

[poorsche930]

1979 930 non catalyst sunrof coupe, 70,000 miles, a friend owned the car since 1997 and only put on 5k miles, he bought it with 65k miles. Has a full oem C2 update kit (wish it was stock), fresh 1993 interior

O'h yeah as far as all the p.m. upgrades like new head studs etc that's just a given.

As far as pics my home computer is toast and the new one isnt in yet, they'll be coming soon.

[sand_man]

Originally Posted by poorsche930

...Has a full oem C2 update kit (wish it was stock)...

That can mean a few things. From a basic engine perspective, the C2 came with a better intercooler (long neck that used a more traditional compressor by-pass valve), fully finned cylinders, and K27-7200 turbo. Is that what you have?

[sand_man]

Or by "update kit" are you talking about the exterior styling?

[poorsche930]

Originally Posted by sand_man

Or by "update kit" are you talking about the exterior styling?

you got it, bumpers, lights, rocker panels, mirrors etc. If it had the C2 engine upgrades I wouldnt wish it was left stock.

[poorsche930]

my buddy dosnt want to touch it.....

just got off the phone with paul weir, he'll be emailing me an estimate in a few days. I geuss it needs a total rebuild, there appears to only be one head stub broken but what about the rods bolts and the rest of the internals?

I plan on keeping this car for at least the next ten years. So I can stomach this expense.

Any other places you guys reccomend for a rebuild?

[9dreizig]

where are you ?? I don't think you need a full rebuild for just a head stud ( I could be wrong on this, but someone will comment)

[gsxrken]

At 70k, you could replace the studs and button it back up, although most would do a top end (renew the heads, valve seals, and maybe piston rings. But your bottom end is high likely to still be mint. I would not get into that without a reason.

[spuggy]

Originally Posted by gsxrken

At 70k, you could replace the studs and button it back up, although most would do a top end (renew the heads, valve seals, and maybe piston rings. But your bottom end is high likely to still be mint. I would not get into that without a reason.

Dude, the factory rod bolts are a perfect reason IMO.

I have the bills to prove it...

Oddly enough, my wrench had a 930 trailered in the other day while I was there - big end noise. It'll likely be a spun #3 or #6 rod bearing. Because it almost always is.

[poorsche930]

Originally Posted by spuggy

Dude, the factory rod bolts are a perfect reason IMO.

I have the bills to prove it...

Oddly enough, my wrench had a 930 trailered in the other day while I was there - big end noise. It'll likely be a spun #3 or #6 rod bearing. Because it almost always is.

My friend said the same thing as did paul weir.

It's just a lot to stomach, owning ther car for less than 2 weeks and find out I may need to spend up to10k on it.

I really could use some advice on who/where to send my engine or car to.

[Rory Mckenna]

I agree.. that is bad news but! once it's fixed up you'll be happy! the bad days will fade away.

[sand_man]

WARNING: I am at a total loss for how to advise you and am trying my best not to mislead you or scare you. I've gone through this myself - total rebuild with mods.

The slippery slope that I alluded to in my fist response usually starts, because while you've got this engine out to do some "freshening up", it often times seems like not much more to just split the case and make sure that foundation (the bottom end) really is solid. HOWEVER, splitting the case and doing it right means that the crank, case, oil pump, intermediate shaft/gear, rods, bearings, oil galley, etc. are all inspected, measured, machined (when needed), cleaned, replaced (when needed), etc. Some of this is basic work, some is more complicated. But in the end you know what you've got...provided the work is done properly! Sort of like creating your own baseline; the buck starts and stops with you, and history is reset - new /rebuilt engine. But what I've just described is only the bottom-end, haven't even touched on the heads, valves, cam towers, rockers, cams, all cam hardware, Ps&Cs, etc. As you can see, it is a lot! These are complicated engines and being that they are built from the crank centerline outwards (in a modular fashion) each little tolerance will add up and can influence your deck height and compression ratio...thus for a proper rebuild, nothing is usually left to chance, and this peace of mind is what you are paying for.

FWIW, I was once told that with these engines, you can usually get one top-end rebuild before REALLY needing to go into the case...of course many factors play a part, mostly historical ones that reside with prior owners. If at all possible, my advice would be to try and take advantage of that one top-end rebuild. The ARP rod bolts are traditionally installed with a stretch gauge, but it is not mandatory, and an experienced engine builder might be able to make due with the torque method for installation....this would negate the need for having to split the case - rods can be removed and installed without having to split the case. From my perspective, I could never split the case and have all of these oily parts staring at me without feeling a responsibility to jump through the expensive hoops I described above...THAT'S JUST ME. So that's why I'm inclined to advise you to avoid it if you don't think you are up to the challenge...if you are, and your checkbook, and patience are handy, then by all means take the plunge and build a fresh new engine!

And then there is resale! Generally speaking, these cars are expected to come with a working engine capable of passing a PPI...so you won't be adding too much value to your car by going through these motions...some but not much. So it's a good thing you intend to keep it!

[SCHNELE]

Welcome, as far as the slippery slope, well jump right in the water is fine.

[poorsche930]

Originally Posted by SCHNELE

Welcome, as far as the slippery slope, well jump right in the water is fine.

Well the water is satill a bit murky but I'm going to jump.

Tomorrow I'm going to talk to a local shop that used to run 917's at sebring and daytona. 45 years of porsche builing. Ralph's in Reisterstown md. His estimate is $12-15K and 3-4 weeks turnaround (machine shop willing)

Also got an emailed estimate from Paul Weir. He wanted $9586 not including shipping the car to him. a few months turn around time.

Both use raceware head studs and rod bolts and a mix of OEM/wurth fasteners. Both use all NEW hard parts.

There is another thing. Paul weir warranty 2yr/24k miles
Ralph's 3yr/36k mile warranty.

Now, I'm in Maryland, Weir is in Washington state. If something came up I can do the 40min drive to Ralph's shop.

Any suggestions?

[Hayabusa]

Where's your gut?

I live fifteen minutes from Paul and I would send him my 930 if I lived in MD. He'll give your car the TLC it deserves, works in sano conditions on an individual appointment only basis and handles every car like it is his own!

[BReyes]

Welcome.

Sorry to hear about that dude.

I would pull the motor and take the long block in the back of a truck to builder/machinist or ship it for that matter, and have the top end done, because the bottom end is fine, and leave the bottom end for when I wanted to replace the rods, go to EFI and such.

Sounds like you and your friend could do a better job than some shops.

Regards,

[DDDD]

You should really seriously consider talking to Steve Timmins at Instant-g.com before doing anything. He is in Delaware, and he does all kinds of engine builds and conversions.

I have never heard of your local guy but EVERYBODY has heard of Timmins. He built the blue 911 in this month's issue of Excellence magazine (a Porsche mag found at most big newstands).

He is a builder with a solid rep in the Porsche community. Maybe your local guy is just as good, but it helps to get a second opinion. I promise you that Steve will probably take a totally different approach than the other guy, Steve thinks outside the box and he can probably EFI your car while he builds it.

Always worth a second opinion.