GHL Headers and K27 install questions
 

I just removed the stock turbo and the factory headers with the help of Oh Haha and another friend that doesn't visit this board. Thanks a lot guys! Ok, we have everything removed pretty much. The wastegate is still connected so I have that to remove but it's going pretty well with no broken head studs or hacking up too much. Anyways, I have a few questions that hopefully you guys can help me with.

The hard oil line is in the way. Is there a replacement or can I just bend up the PS some to make the PS HE fit?

The OEM oil trip tank had two lines coming off of it. On to the airbox and one to a oil pump. I assume the new take will only run to the oil pump. So can I just plug the fitting to the air box?

I bought and adapter for the K27 and it came with two O-Rings. One is obvious where it goes. Where does the second one go?

When I removed the stock turbo seal came out as well but it's not an o-ring. does that go around the tube to the intercooler or just around the tin?

Lastly, the banjo fitting that goes on top of the wastegate fell out of the fitting next to the valve cover. Can I just slide it back in there and run with it or do I now need to replace something.

I think that's all for now. Thanks in advanced! SmileWavy

Let me see what I can help you with
 

Photo's definitely help in these cases but I just went through the same thing on my 87-930 so it's still fresh in my head.

1) Hard Oil Line: The oil line (if I'm correct) that is in your way is the one that comes from the crankcase and bends toward the rear of the car, runs along the bottom of the front of the motor and then makes another turn where it connects to another oil line going to your thermostat. Correct? If so, then you need to backdate your oil lines so that the line comes off the the crankcase and goes under the bell housing. This is a hard line only(not hard/soft) which will connect to a another new thermostat line. You will need to purchase both of them. They run abolut $115 each.

2) Drip tank: Yes, only one line. Cap off the nipple on the air-box.

3) K27 Adapter: I'm guessing that your referring to the billet aluminum adapter that goes on top of the intake portion of the turbo and connects to the pipe connecting to the IC. This will depend on what IC your using, but the connector has 2 o-rings. One is for the inside of that connector that slides onto the top of the turbo, the other is for outside of the connector where it will connect to your intake pipe as described above.

4) Stock turbo seal: Not sure what your referring to here... maybe the rubber gasket seal that fits between the IC and down-pipe? If so, reuse the same way as before.

5) Banjo fitting: This just connects to a rubber hose that in turn connects to your IC. The other tube just vents to atmosphere. The fitting on top is the one that vents to atmosphere. The one on the side connects to your IC.

Bonus: You may need to adjust your turbo support bracket and re-drill holes. When going to headers it often sits a little different and will not line up unless you drill new holes. I would not leave it off as the exhaust will be supporting all of the weight of the turbo and what ever muffler you connect to it.

Hope this helps. Best of luck with your upgrade!

Bryan

1) www.goingsuperfast.com do a braided oil line if you want. I prefer the hard lines from the factory myself as you were advised above.
http://www.goingsuperfast.com/Porsche-911-Turbo.html
http://www.goingsuperfast.com/images/oil_line.JPG


4) There is indeed a seal that gies around the turbo to seal it to the engine tin.

Thanks Bryan for the detailed reply! Here are some pics...

The oil line in question. It sounds like I could either bend it up or get some new hard or braided lines.
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1205625398.jpg

Yes, it's the billet adapter. Is this where both the seals go? This is what we were thinking but didn't want to install it uless we're sure.
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1205625555.jpg

Here is the seal in question. It came out with the stock turbo so I am not real sure how it goes. Is this the one that goes between the turbo and the tin?
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1205625470.jpg

Correct
 

Bill,

You correct on pictures 2 and 3. I have the same billet adapter but never used as I needed to modify the down-pipe for the B6 IC. Instead, I used high pressure turbo hose between the turbo and down-pipe. That seal does go between the turbo and the tin. It helps to reduce things from going in or out of your engine compartment. Use it if you like. In the picture you are starring at the bottom of that seal. Turn it over and slide on the turbo prior to the billet adapter.

Regarding picture number 1, this is the line. You will need to replace with either a hard line that runs in the rear of the motor under the bell housing along with the new thermostat line or a stainless steel braided line as NathanUk had mentioned. I would recommend the hard line option. I did this on mine and have been very happy.

Bryan

Thanks again! I think I'm back on track now. One last thing if you don't mind. Do you know that part numbers, a link, or the years of the hard lines that you used?

Oil Line Pictures
 

Bill,

Here are some pictures of the hard oil-line backdate. There is the hard line under the bell housing that connects to the new thermostat line which goes out of the picture on the right. This should help visually.

Bryan

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1205627642.jpg

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1205627658.jpg

Oil Lines
 

I ended up going with a different supplier than our host as I could not find the appropriate help and/or oil lines that I needed. I mean I could not figure out for sure if the ones that I needed were the ones that I was looking at. Also, if the lines were in fact the same ones, our host was more expensive.

I always use our host to purchase everything, but these lines were the only thing I went elsewhere for.

I purchased from Performance Products. Here are there part numbers.

901684 ($84.96) & 901682 ($115.56)

If you are able to call them and get the Porsche OEm number, you may be able to buy from our host. I kept getting dead ends and the guy that helped me did this to his car as well and knew what I needed.

Bryan

I'll see what kind of OE part numbers I come up with as cross reference and hopefully order them up on Monday. Now I can continue on.......... :cool:

Bill
you gonna have all these bits and pieces by next Friday? I'm planning on heading over again to hopefully wrap this project up.
I can't wait to see how fast it is with the new turbo on it..


WOOHOO!

Yup, I'll order it up Monday morning first thing and have it shipped 2-3 days or if it's questionable I'll overnight it. I appreciate your help today. I was telling the wife, between your tools and mine I think we have just about everything covered. Except flare nut crows feet. :rolleyes:

I'm going to pick up the variety of nuts, bolts, threaded rod, etc Monday or Tuesday night. I have a lot of work to get done before next Friday.

Besides these oil lines do you think I need anything else? You can PM or email me.

This is gonna be SWEEEEEEEEET!!!

On my car the red silicone seal that is not an o-ring type did not go on the turbo before the billet adaptor.
Instead it was on the billet adaptor before the aluminum up pipe went on.
It sat where your ring finger is in the picture above it.
It's an air seal for where the turbo up pipe goes through the engine tin, but if you have a K27 on there that hole has been cut larger so it is not going to seal anything.

Your o-rings on the adaptor are in the right places. Putting a little grease on them lets things slide in place without tearing the o-rings.
Sometimes you have to dress up the casting lines and marks on the turbo to make the billet adaptors o-ring seal.
If that doesn't work and it leaks there, you can put it on with RTV silcone gasket sealer.

Some Advice for smooth transition next week
 

A few things that may help you.

1) 36mm line wrench. You will need this to remove the oil lines from the crank case and the thermostat. If you don't have one, you can buy one from our host or buy a 36mm box ended wrench and cut a piece out of the end to make your custom line wrench that will slide over the oil line and then onto the nut. This is what I did. It took 2 minutes with a roto-zip and I was able to find one in town that day.

2) I would remove the oil line off the motor for sure and mock-up your headers with a few bolts (tightened) and then your turbo. This will allow you to make sure you will not have any issues with the pipe between the turbo and the IC. You may have to rotate the turbo on the flange to angle it better and/or modify the pipe if it's sitting to high (pushing up the IC). This will ensure that when you finally bolt up everything, she will go back together just as easy as she came apart. Headers may or may not change the height of the turbo which will affect where your pipe ends up resting.

3) By doing this, it will also allow you to figure out if at all, or by how much you will need to modify your holes on your turbo/exhaust support bracket.

4) Lastly, remember to remove the (red) fuse relays in your trunk for both fuel pumps so that before you start your car and attach the drip tank to the turbo, you can turn over your motor (without it starting) while priming your turbo with the oil that drained out of the oil feed line when you removed it. This will ensure that your turbo is primed before you start. Important: Do not crank the motor and then stop and then crank the motor and then stop and so on. This will push oil into the line until you stop and then it will go back where it came from. Turn the motor over for as long as needed to see oil come out the bottom of the turbo. Do not worry about your starter. Then, connect the oil tank and start her up.

Hope this helps,

Bryan

JFairman - You're probably right that it won't be useable when the tin has been modified to fit the new turbo.

Bryan - Those are some great tips. I didn't even think of a couple of those. If you have any other ideas or tips feel free to post 'em up. It's very helpful.

I've used a large crescent wrench on that oil line since my big open end wrenches dissapeared... and it worked fine.

As far as priming the turbo, all you have to do is pour some motor oil in the oil feed hole before installing it and bolting on the oil line.
Then start the car and let it idle with the aftermarket turbo sump tank installed but the braided scavenge oil line not screwed onto it yet.
The turbo is not spinning fast at idle, not alot of oil flows through the turbo and the oil you pour in before installing it is plenty for the time it takes for the engine to supply oil to it.
You should see oil start to come out of the little oil tank shortly after starting it.
Then connect the oil line.

Not as messy, and you don't use up your starter motor being overly cautious.

Response
 

Those will also work... except when accessing your thermostat oil-line. This will require a line wrench unless you take off the line in front of the other and then access it that way. Also, the Thermostat is not supported by anything other than the oil lines themselves, so have someone act as a counter torque when removing the line.

I was told how to prime the turbo from a Porsche mechanic. I'm sure pouring some oil down the feed line will work just as well. That is how I was taught.

All are great options. If you think of anything else, PM me and I will shoot you my number so you can call with questions.

Bryan

X98boardwell:
The new oil lines in your picture, are they custom made?
Or are they from another 911 model?

Falk

The oil line Bryan has pictured are stock replacement Porsche. They are required when backdating to early heat exchangers for a 911 and headers for a 930.
The stock SC/Carrera/930 heat exchangers connect banks near the tranny requiring the stock oil line to be relocated to wrap around the front of the engine.
Those lines have taken a jump in price lately (what hasn't). If you can find them for less than $225 I would snag a set now.

Here's a question Bill didn't ask:

How the he!! do you safely separate the wastegate from it's mounting base?

We have the nuts off but that thing won't budge. We were trying to remove that before moving to the HE but , in the end, we ended up taking the DS exhaust with the turbo and WG still attached.
Obviously, there is a gasket but is there a trick or any tips to getting this apart? It's not my car so I refrain from doing anything too drastic but we do need to reuse it with the GHL kit.

You could try....
 

A rubber mallet around the base with light taps or a dead blow hammer. I would at least coat with penetrating oil to help break up the seal between the two parts.

I did not have this problem as my car is out west. I use to live in MI and completely understand where you are coming from. Just like taking a rotor off a car when re-doing the breaks.... it just needs constant persuasion and eventually it will come off.

Best of luck.

Bryan

I found this one:

http://www.pelicanparts.com/cgi-bin/ksearch/PEL_search.cgi?command=show_part_page&please_wait= N&make=POR&model=911M&section=ENGoil&page=5&bookma rk=18&part_number=911-107-739-10-M20

Part number: 91110773910

But what's the other one? My PET book doesn't even show it. Probably because of not being the correct years. Can you guys help me with this?

Is it #20 in this pic? But which one? There is 3 of them..
http://www.pelicanparts.com/cgi-bin/PartsLookup/search.cgi?command=show_page&Catalog_Name=911_USA_ 74_77_KATALOG&Illustration=104-00&Line_Item=33

Sorry, I just want to make sure I get the right ones....

Incorrect
 

The first one looks good. The second one (#20) is incorrect. The line from the crankcase connects to your thermostat (in the front area of the right rear wheel well in front of the rear tire) not your oil tank. That is the line to the oil tank.

I do not want to give you the incorrect info so I cannot advise you on the correct number.

The first one looks good,

Bryan

How about this one? #9 in the diaghram?

http://www.pelicanparts.com/cgi-bin/PartsLookup/search.cgi?command=show_page&Catalog_Name=911_USA_ 84_86_KATALOG&Illustration=104-05&Line_Item=9

Bill, check out this # 91110774310. Similar to # 9 in this diagram but has more hardline to it.

#16 in this diagram:
http://www.pelicanparts.com/PartsLookup/HTML/911_USA_74_77_KATALOG/104-05-Frame3.htm

Good call! That's probably it. Can anyone confirm, that in fact, this is the part I need?

You need both #15 and #16.
Not sure why Pelican has more than one entry for each with different prices.

I'll have some info for you this evening.

Correct
 

Brian (rarlyl8) is right. The one with more hard line is the correct one. The pictures are rough drawings of these lines. There are two very similar lines that are only 4 inches (of the soft part) longer or shorter than the other.

The 3-choices is what screwed me up when I was backdating and those lines are different. If you can get the actual Porsche oem part number from Performance products then you could confirm which line. They are more expensive from our host as well. Just a thought..

Bryan

Sweet! Thanks guys! Now I know the part numbers at least. RarlyL8-Email sent a while back.

Just saw this thread. Brian Gerber told me:

930-107-729-10
911-107-739-10

in email when I bought my used GHL's and needed to buy lines in a hurry. He told me to just buy them from an OPC rather than get them from him, but he was kind enough to build and ship me a catch tank pretty fast..

The lines were a pig to find in PET, but I think the 911-107-739-10 part is the oil return from the block for an up-to-74 car (and you need the same part for SSI's? - hearsay), and the 930-107-729-10 part is the pipe from the thermostat for a '78 turbo.

Our host does list both lines, IIRC.

Bill- Not sure if there are other ways around it but the previous owner of my 930 modified the factory pipe between the turbo and intercooler. When I spoke with Stephen at IA about converting from the 7006 that my car came with to one of his 7200's he wanted me to make sure that this mod had been done to the tube- so I think it's an accepted way of doing it. If you haven't done so already I believe you're going to have to modify that pipe. I don't think you'll be needing the o-ring adapter that you mentioned earlier as the pipe will connect directly to the turbo with rubber hose and hose clamps once the mod has been done. See below:

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1205805334.jpg

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1205805362.jpg

I have another question for you guys. All my cylinders look like the one with the red arrow except for the number 2 cylinder (yellow arrow). Remember the car has been sitting all winter so that may be a factor in your replies. Is this something I should be concerned with? If so, what would I be looking for? When Oh Haha and I did a valve adj last year all the plugs looked the same. So seeing this has got me wondering.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1205873891.jpg

It looks like the valve seal and or valve guide on #1 is a little leaky. Or if the car has been sitting all winter, maybe the oil worked its way into the cylinders from the tank and into the exhaust port through the valve. She may smoke a lot when you start her for the first time. But I would drive it and see how it is, Im thinking it is from the oil finding the lowest spot to go to. If it dont smoke much after the first time I wouldnt worry about it and just drive it.

That's good. All the cylinders are leaky so I guess I have one good cylinder. :( The car runs great so I won't worry about it now. But if/when it needs a top end then I'll upgrade some stuff... (cams)

I wouldnt worry about it now, how many miles on the car?
When she consistantly starts blowing smoke then take car of the problem accordingly....Five angle valve job, port polish, set of cams, seals, and guides.:D

....maybe some bigger valves....

I've got just over 60k on it now. But I'm looking forward to spring to add more to it.

Something else just came to me is will I need to change the rubber sleeve that goes to the intake? Or will the stock one work? I can post a pic later if need be.

which sleeve?

That's what I figured. I'll get a photo tonight. It's basically a large rubber tube that clamps on the side of the turbo.

This it?http://forums.pelicanparts.com/911-930-turbo-super-charging-forum/357113-full-wing-intercooler-stock-manifold-blown-six.html
post # 15 in this thread. Sorry I couldntt get just the pics to post.

Yes, even though it looks completely different then what I have. That is one solid tube.

This is what I have. Will this rubber sleeve fit on the new turbo when it's in place? Or do I have to get something else to make that connection?

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1205962485.jpg

It connects to the turbo here:

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1205962507.jpg