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So between hot shifts it dose not lag significantly?

I know what you are talking about. I had one of the early HF turbos but with a 7006 hot side. 1 bar by 3500rpm with a big top end.

Traded it for a k27-7200 that toped out at about 360whp and could not make more than about .9 bar goost past 5k but I found it a lot more fun.

You might be able to try the next size down A/R and see what happens. Usally only about $200 and they are easy to swap.
Old 06-28-2010, 08:19 AM
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yeah, the next size down is a .55, It may choke it but for a couple hundred bucks it's worth trying. The turbo would be fantastic with just 300rpm sooner response.
Old 06-28-2010, 08:39 AM
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The Bull&$@t 262 is the Bull&$@t 362 with a smaller compressor housing. It has the same giant turbine, which further research has revealed to be the old Schwitzer S2A 76mm turbine, this is huge inertia and flow capacity north of 600HP. The 0.70 is already too small for best efficiency. Sell this thing to the first zit popping Honda dreamer that comes along and start over.
Old 06-28-2010, 08:55 AM
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Wheel inertia is everything on turbos. If this turbo uses an old cast wheel, that's a big issue. The billet wheels from tuners like Blouch can cure all...maybe talk to them?
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Old 06-29-2010, 06:56 AM
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it is a big heavy wheel. I'm going to try the .55 housing just to see what happens.
Old 06-29-2010, 08:24 AM
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well we put the .55 housing on and it made a world of difference. It spools quick in 1st gear even. The K27 would make peak boost in 1st gear just about the time you needed to shift into 2nd gear, now i'm at 1 bar by 4000rpm and it has time to pull like a freight train for 1500rpm before I need to shift. If I floor it in 2nd gear @ 2300rpm i'm at 1 bar by 3000rpm. The true test will be doing a 3rd gear pull from 2000rpm to see how long it takes to hit 1 bar. I can compare that to the datalogs with the K27 but i'm going to bet it kicks the K27's ass.
Old 07-09-2010, 06:28 AM
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Good to hear.

You have a much bigger turbine than the K27-7200 (58 v 68mm).

Seems the smaller A/R must be the ticket to make it work as you wanted.

Would be interesting to moniter the pressure in the header before the turbine against boost to be sure the turbine is not to restrictive but I am doughting that is an issue.
Old 07-09-2010, 07:10 AM
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i'm curious as well. I will do that
Old 07-09-2010, 09:07 AM
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I have not done it but most the good tuners and exhaust makers test for pressure deltas all the time.

One can test before the turbo to see if the turbine is creating to much back pressure. One can test after a turbo to determine of the muffler is restrictive. One can test before the compressor to see if the air filter or metering system is restrictive (vacuum). One can test at the compressor and at the manifold to see if the intercooler and plumbing is creating a significant pressure drop. One can test on both sides of the throttle body to see if it is a restriction.

Think about it, if we are pulling equal to 1 psi of vac on before the turbo, 1.5 psi through the intercooler plumbing, and .5 lbs because the throttle body is to small, we have to make the turbo work at a level of 18 lbs boost for the motor to see 15 lbs.

Having said that one would have to make a tap off the header. Probably add an extension of metal tubing or such to isolate the heat. Then a pressure gage if running it up on a dyno. Better yet an electronic pressure gage if you have and ability to data log.

I wish we would see more real test data instead of guessing where the opportunity may be.
Old 07-09-2010, 01:02 PM
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well, I took off the straight pipe exhaust and we made a single in / dual outlet muffler system using a Magnaflow muffler for a late model Camaro. Car sounds awesome, just slightly louder than stock and she still spools up instantly. Only the dyno will tell if it's a bad or good thing!!
Old 07-10-2010, 07:45 AM
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Pic ?
Old 07-10-2010, 12:47 PM
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Where did you get the 68mm figure for the turbine diameter. At this site they said it was the 83mm turbine:

BorgWarner Bullseye Power S300 Turbo Turbochargers

I thought that was possible, but then I found another site that said it was the 76mm turbine. What is the deal? I know both of the those wheel sizes exist in the old Schwitzer (now BW) S3A and S3B turbos. I know of no Schwitzer 68mm turbines, only a 70mm S2B. The Bullseye parts appear to be Schwitzer (BW now) turbos.

I think putting a small housing on a big wheel is not as good as putting a big housing on a small wheel.

I think clock time to boost is more important than RPM to boost. Many turbo's can make it to 1 bar at 4000 RPM starting at 2500 RPM in 2nd gear. The point is which one can do it quickest isn't it?



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Originally Posted by 911st View Post
Good to hear.

You have a much bigger turbine than the K27-7200 (58 v 68mm).

Seems the smaller A/R must be the ticket to make it work as you wanted.

Would be interesting to moniter the pressure in the header before the turbine against boost to be sure the turbine is not to restrictive but I am doughting that is an issue.
Old 07-11-2010, 10:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Speedy Squirrel View Post
I think putting a small housing on a big wheel is not as good as putting a big housing on a small wheel.

I think clock time to boost is more important than RPM to boost. Many turbo's can make it to 1 bar at 4000 RPM starting at 2500 RPM in 2nd gear. The point is which one can do it quickest isn't it?
I wondered which would be a better compromise. But in the end swapping housings was easier than sending the turbo back to Bullseye. When I asked around about housing/wheel swaps nobody could tell me which would be better. Boost response (initial onset) and time to peak boost have both greatly increased. In 2nd gear i'm seeing full boost by 3000rpm, not 4000rpm. The car is much better in around town driving than it was even with the K27. I am more than pleased with spool up now I need to dyno it and see if there are any negatives. I'll get some pics later

to comment on your first sentance above. I've seen, in my limited experience, a few guys swap to larger housings in the quest for more power. One particular guy with a 5.3liter V8 had a single T4 turbo with a P-trim wheel and .68 exhaust housing. The car was running out of steam at 675rwhp on the dyno, they swapped on a .96 housing and saw less than 25rwhp gain. A close friend of mine swapped a P-trim wheel for a Q-trim on his T4 60-1 turbo and the truck ran 5 mph faster in the 1/4 mile. I'm not saying which is better, but I think the wheel flows the air and the housing dictates how much of that air impacts the wheel. Either way, I couldn't be happier right now.

Last edited by drmatera; 07-11-2010 at 12:31 PM..
Old 07-11-2010, 12:24 PM
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The info I had was from there web site but I could be wrong.

However, I believe my it is a spot on match to a GT 35. On the compressor I understand the most important wheel dimension is the inducer, on the turbine it is the exducer. Thus, that is the turbine exducer measurement.

Also important is the ratio of the compressor inducer to the turbine exducer. I suspect the greater multiple of the turbine is to the compressor (turbine being larger), the faster the boost response might be provided you have the exhaust volume to drive it and a smaller A/R is just a way to fine tune.

To me putting a large compressor with a small turbine wheel throws the ratio way out of whack and is like starting out in second gear. Sure you hit 35mph or such at lower rpm but it takes longer to get there, if you can follow my thought.

Again, I am still learning and this is just what I belive to date.
Old 07-11-2010, 12:52 PM
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This is what I found on their website. No mention of a S262. Perhaps you can point me in the correct direction? I also notice that they do not understand the meaning of exducer and inducer. INducer always means the part of the impeller where the gas goes in. EXducer always means the part of the impeller where the gas exits.




Quote:
Originally Posted by 911st View Post
The info I had was from there web site but I could be wrong.
Old 07-11-2010, 03:41 PM
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Been a while but I think if you dig through the web site or web I believe the 262 is the 362 with a smaller compressor housing to fit smaller space situations.

Kind of like the Turbonetics 62-1 HF if I recall correctly.

Then it seems they got there headings mixed by leaving out a heading for trim" that's all.

As you say the inducer on the compressor is where the gas enters and would be the smaller of the two sizes so that would be 62mm. Seems this is the more important dimension I understand.

Then on the turbine the exducer is the important dimension and the smaller of the two values so 67.6mm.

It seems the sweet spot for a CIS and many EFI street 930's is very close to a 60mm compressor inducer. Not sure if many of us need to go to 62mm but is seems to work well to.

Not an expert, just what I have seemed to see come up over the years. I know one 3.3 CIS that makes over 400 ft lbs w a 60-1 on stock ports and cams with full boost and big TQ before 3000rpm. Single BB and spools very, very fast.

Hope this makes sense.
Old 07-11-2010, 07:55 PM
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yes, the S262 is just a S362 with a smaller cover for tight spaces.
Old 07-12-2010, 09:12 AM
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here are some finished pics. We pulled the bumperette's and molding off due to them being very rusty. It killed the paint on the bumper but it's getting IROC bumpers next week so i'll have to live with an ugly ass for now


Old 07-13-2010, 03:01 PM
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Looking good!
Old 07-13-2010, 03:55 PM
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it's looking good Dean. One question though when we were up at the car show in WPB and were talking to Eddie. He said the best cooling for an intercooler was side to side instead of front to back due to the longer distance. He was using some type of Japnese cores that had better flow than the the bell garret etc. I think he said they were cheaper also. Was wondering why you still decided to go the other way.
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Last edited by Ken911; 07-13-2010 at 07:11 PM..
Old 07-13-2010, 07:09 PM
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