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Garage Queen
 
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LM1 O2 sensor bad?

Gents,

I have had an LM1 with a DP gauge on my car for over 6K miles. It has been working great until the last couple of weeks and now it not working. It all started when I would put gas in the car. I know that is weird, but it would. The gauge would jump around from 22 to 7.6 or just flash 7.6. The LM1 screen would show heater open error code which is a error for the oxygen sensor not being connected.

Initially, I checked all the connection and everything was ok. After driving the car for 10 minutes or so; the AFR gauge would return to normal operation. Yesterday, that all changed. Now, the LM1 screen is on, but only gives flat lines for data. The DB gauge on my dash flashes numbers very quickly ranging from 22 to 7.6. The system will not work even after 10 minutes.

Has my O2 sensor gone bad?
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Stephanie
My minions:'86 911 Targa 3.4, '87 930, '05 Lotus Elise,
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Old 05-15-2011, 04:46 AM
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"Has my O2 sensor gone bad?"
Maybe, but honestly I don't know of anybody that has not had some problems with innovate products... period.

I've been through two LC-1 controllers, 2 bosch wideband oxygen sensors (they are lowest cost through amazon) and two G3 easy to look at analog stepper motor movement gauges (you couldn't pay me to tolerate or watch a flashing digital AFR gauge)

After all that, it works but it's not consistant and I have to turn off the LC-1 and reboot it form time to time because it just stops working and freezes up when it feels like it. I installed a small rocker switch in the front left side of the glove box to reboot it without turning the ignition off and back on to reboot it while driving. Then it works normally again.

I kinda feel sorry for the people that use innovate AFR products with EFI to help control the fuel mixture...that would be endless problems and frustration in my opinion because like most automotive mid price aftermarket consumer electronics made from low cost chinese components... innovate wideband controllers have proven to me to be inconsistant but work good when they work.

I know they came out with a new wideband controller recently that is built into the flashing digital gauge body to replace the flaky LC-1 but I don't know how good it really is.

Try going through the entire two step O2 heater sensor calibration and then the free air calibration with your innovate wide band controller and see if that gets it working again. Other than that all you can do is replace the oxygen sensor for about $60 and see if that does it.
If you call Innovate tech support maybe they'll help you out.
Old 05-15-2011, 07:32 AM
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That's a pisser about Innovate products. I've had mine on-board for 3 or 4 years maybe, and have had to re-boot due to being frozen up only once so far...though I did after about the first year find myself taking the G3 gauge apart 'cause it "stuck". Loose screws and stuff inside, taking the needle out of alignment, but I was able to fix it.

I'm with Jim. Go through the entire setup/calibration process, next spend the bucks replacing the sensor. But first, rag on Innovate for some assistance to stand by their products.
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Old 05-15-2011, 07:51 AM
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I wanted to follow-up on this post because I determined what the problem was. The issue is caused by heat affecting the O2 sensor. During the summer, the heat from stopping for gas or other brief stops caused the O2 sensor to read incorrectly. With the colder winter temps, the problem has gone away.

I do not have a heat shield and I figure I need to add one before summer to keep this from happening again.
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Old 12-05-2011, 03:37 PM
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I had nothing with issues with my Innovative products on my M3. Same issue as the OP of this thread had. Tried a new O2 sensor and it was the control unit. Thought they had fixed their issues by now.
Old 12-05-2011, 04:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PorscheGAL View Post
I wanted to follow-up on this post because I determined what the problem was. The issue is caused by heat affecting the O2 sensor. During the summer, the heat from stopping for gas or other brief stops caused the O2 sensor to read incorrectly. With the colder winter temps, the problem has gone away.

I do not have a heat shield and I figure I need to add one before summer to keep this from happening again.
In addition to a heat sink you could change the weld-in bung to the 1 inch variety that Innovate now sells and see if that helps.
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Old 12-05-2011, 05:46 PM
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I had an issue with mine and Innovate replaced it free of cost even when warranty was out.
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Old 12-05-2011, 06:21 PM
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I too had nothing but problems with innovate so just use the handheld now when tuning.

So maybe OT but is there an AFR gauge/monitor that is trouble free out of the box?
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Old 12-05-2011, 07:22 PM
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Those sensors don't like excessive heat. Innovate is more sensible to accurate readings so it starts to act up when sensor is going bad and giving ' not so accurate readings'

Most of the other brands just keep working (most use the same sensor) but IMO the readings start to have some error.

I would try a heat sink or shield and the one inch bung to remove some of the heat from the sensor. On my bike I had to rig up a PC heat sink to get the sensor to work nicely.
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Old 12-05-2011, 10:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 911nut View Post
In addition to a heat sink you could change the weld-in bung to the 1 inch variety that Innovate now sells and see if that helps.
You can also make a heat sink out of a piece of aluminum between the sensor and the bung, but if their product needed it. I feel for the price, Innovative should supply it.
Old 12-06-2011, 01:46 AM
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Ditto on the heat issue. My LM-1 and sensor do not like the heat. Where are you guys putting yours? I don't have a lot of room back there to add a 1" spacer and not "kink" the line. Doesn't the sensor have to be mounted somewhere on the topside of the exhaust pipe before the muffler?
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Old 12-06-2011, 02:11 AM
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I welded a bung just after the muffler and all works great with my LC-1 controller and XD-16 gauge. I use mine to monitor A/F but not control it.
Old 12-06-2011, 03:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by boosted 89 View Post
I welded a bung just after the muffler and all works great with my LC-1 controller and XD-16 gauge. I use mine to monitor A/F but not control it.
Ditto, but I'm using a G3 gauge.
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Old 12-06-2011, 04:25 AM
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Zeitronix Zt-2 : SEMA Award Winning Wideband Engine Datalogging System

4 cars all trouble free. The square display wedges between the dash and lower console (C2 turbo) no cutting and can be removed if needed, understated and does not look too ricey

accurate and has logging so you can analyze runs after on your laptop with great resolution
and do not have to take your eyes off the road .

host of other features (like configurable alarms). but reliable-accurate and best logging
Old 12-06-2011, 04:35 AM
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Are the cable runs long enough for our rear engine cars?
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Old 12-06-2011, 09:52 AM
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I just installed a Zietronics ZT-2 on my 91 965 Turbo at the recomendation of Black_Hat. I had extra cable for the O2 sensor and perfect length for the boost option sensor. I opted for the round gage that shows AFR and boost at same time and was able to mount the assembly in the space in front of the gear shifter.
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Old 12-06-2011, 01:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sundevil64 View Post
Ditto on the heat issue. My LM-1 and sensor do not like the heat. Where are you guys putting yours?
I made a heat sink out of sheet aluminum. It's as big as I can fit in the area. See the Innovate site for a sketch.
As for sensor placement, anywhere between 8 o'clock and 4 o'clock (looking into the pipe) is good. You want it placed so that any condensation stream won't reach it. Mine's halfway down the tailpiece after the muffler and I get good readings there.
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Old 12-06-2011, 02:21 PM
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Zietronics round gage and gage location. Does this look too "ricey"?
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1976 911s,2.7, Cobalt blue, G 40 cams, Weber 40 IDA, SSI / Dansk, MSD 6AL
1991 964 Turbo,3.3 ,Polar silver, Fabspeed headers and exhaust, stock W/G, Greddy EBC, Synapse BOV, BL WUR w/ RPM CSV switch, CIS Fuelhead mods, GT 35 Turbo, Snow W/Meth Inj., K&N Cone Air Filter, AAR delete, Decel valve delete, Zeitronics ZR-2 AFR
1994 968 White, bone stock! (son's first car)
Old 12-06-2011, 02:53 PM
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