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TrickyDSE23's Avatar
 
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Dropping a 3.6 930 Engine into 1976 911 SC

Hi guys, haven't posted for a while as I abandoned my project about a year ago, but have recently become re-enthused and started plowing through it again.

Just a quick explanation of what I'm trying to do, I've got a 1976 911 rolling chassis which would have originally had a 2.7 litre engine with sportmatic gearbox in, and have sourced a 3.6 litre 930 engine mated to a 4 speed manual g50 gearbox complete with exhaust, which has very low mileage. So the idea is to turn the rolling chassis into a 930 replica.

In bodywork/brakes/suspension terms I am getting there, and those areas aren't really an an issue as it's all fairly straightforward, but am having sleepless nights over the way forward with the engine.

I have looked around the forum for any information on doing the swap, or the dreamed of step by step guide, but can't seem to find anything, so if anyone has a link to any info and could post it I would be most grateful.

Or if anyone has any knowledge of this conversion and could help me out with a couple of the following questions I would again be very grateful:

Do I need to re-run the fuel lines, as they seem to finish in the wrong position? Being under high pressure I assume that you can't simply cut a piece in to extend them?

Do I need to fit 2 fuel pumps as per the original 930 setup, or is there a single high pressure pump that I could fit, and if so would I then need to fit anything further between the fuel tank and the engine?

The 930 engine has 2 additional oil lines, both a feed and return for the turbo, is it ok to run both of these directly from the main oil tank as long as I fit the radiator upgrade under the front right hand wing?

In wiring terms, I don't really foresee an issue, apart from the lack of the correct CIS module (annoyingly I have misplaced the one that came with the engine in a house move, and the one that came with the chassis is the wrong type), but if I am being a little simple here and overlooking something major please feel free to point it out to me.

I'm sure this can't be too uncommon a conversion, but in my darker moments I've considered simply buying another 2.7 engine and coming back to the engine part of conversion in a few years, however I'm determined to press ahead as I could see me simply never coming back to that once it's on the road.

Many thanks for taking the time to read through my rambling, and even more thanks if you can help.

Rich

Old 08-13-2012, 01:10 AM
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Rich, DO NOT take this the wrong way..... Sell all the parts you have and go buy a 930!!! If you continue down this path, you will be WAY upside down in the car.... First of all, the 930's came with a 3.3L single turbo engine.... Unless its a 94 C-2 turbo (came with a 3.6). The G-50 gearbox is a 5 speed. The 930's came with a 4 speed. If you did in fact source a G-50 5 speed, is it the one out of a C-2? or is it from a N/A car? If it is the latter, you will have to shorten the bell housing or cut way into the torsion tube. If you truly have a G-50, you will need to convert over to a hydraulic clutch setup.... which means a new pedal custer as well...

Yes, for a CIS car, you will need the two factory pumps. You will also need to source a turbo oil tank (for the oil return line of the turbo) or modify your exsisting tank.

Have you thought about the cv joints and axles? How about the suspension and brakes? ( the stock brakes from that car, will NOT be able to keep up with the added HP)... What about the trailing arms? Shifting linkage and shifter from the car the trans came out of?



There is a TON of stuff to consider when doing a swap like this.... Not saying it can not be done, because it has been and can be done.... But you will spend FAR less money and have a car that is worth more in the end, if you start with a 930 to begin with......

Take it from me, I have been there!!!!!!!
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Old 08-13-2012, 08:35 AM
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That's about as good as advice gets.......
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87 930, 993 turbo engine, RS Tuning 520PS/515lbf-ft, Arrow Rods, ARP hardware, Solid lifters, G50-50, RS Flywheel, 890nm Sachs clutch, RSR coil overs all round, 993 C4 calipers front, 930 fronts on the rear, Ruf Speedlines.....
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Old 08-13-2012, 08:45 AM
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|Hi Rich,

Listen to these guys and buy a 930, save some $ and start driving it now.
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Old 08-13-2012, 08:53 AM
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Agreed, that this is not a cheep move. Using the g-50 is awesome but very very expensive even when you own it. And upgrading and duplicating the origional suspension and brakes will set you back not to mention the bodywork.....whew! I'd love to see it but feel it's better to sell the car and buy a 930 done.
Now that being said, I converted my midyear to a 930. But I used the 915 that the car came with, and have not upgraded the brakes or suspension. I have stockish 930 power(about 325hp).
The issue with the oil line is easy to deal with, just put the oil from the scavange into the breather cover. I use one 044 pump but have been told by reputable sources I need two. My engine is uber simple with no ecu or controller, just wur and msd.
My car is very fast. But I'm limited with my 915 to what I have. If you used the g-50 and spent the duckets to get it done, you would be pretty limitless, but then you'd have a car worth 20k that you spent more on. It's up to you.
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Old 08-13-2012, 08:55 AM
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I agree with other posters here. I am building a 930 now that I found without engine or trans. I am doing all the work myself and it's a labor of love, so I am not concerned about the countless man-hours involved.

If you decide to go the route of building this car, my build thread is here.

new member 930 project

Although, I would suggest looking for a better donor chassis like a 930 roller or a G50 car, but if you need advice, the same guys that are suggesting you buy a 930 will be more than happy to guide you through your conversion. This is a good forum with sound advice.
Old 08-13-2012, 09:16 AM
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Good advice given, trying to get that g50 trans in there will be just one of many
nightmares. As turbobrat mentioned, you either shorten the bell housing which
is not cheap, or change the torsion tube. I have done that and believe me,it is
one Hugh nightmare. You would then have to figure out the correct half shafts to
use and the correct stub axles. Then hydraulic clutch issues. Wiring problems and
not to mention brakes. You brakes will not be up to par with the increased power.
Old 08-13-2012, 10:20 AM
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Rich, as stated there are a lot of hidden costs and effort. I've done this as well with an SC and was better for the experience but will never do it again (I sold the car for less money than I had in the engine alone). I considered the money spent a tuition of sorts.
The up-side to these conversions is you can spend the money at your own pase and, after installing the engine, can bite off one project at a time such as the G50 or brakes or widebody, while enjoying the car.
Heliops' 993 GT2 clone is a great example of what can be done with a '76 chassis. Light weight, gorgeous, and powerful.
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Old 08-13-2012, 10:44 AM
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^^^^^^^^^^^^^
They speak the truth...

Have a 911SC-3.3Turbo--Yes I am happy..But I would never go that route again..

BUY THE REAL THING.
Old 08-13-2012, 01:04 PM
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I'd do it again.
If I were rich.
Old 08-13-2012, 01:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by quattrorunner View Post
I'd do it again.
If I were rich.
If u put it that way...

RUF
Old 08-13-2012, 01:12 PM
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Right, and btw, I loved doing it the way I did. But I burned all my reciepts for a reason. What I don't know don't hurt me or anyone else.
Old 08-13-2012, 01:23 PM
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Thanks for all of the replies guys, in terms of the wide-bodied conversion the car is about a couple of weekends off being finished, front suspension has been stripped, cleaned, rebuilt using new polyurethane bushes, upgraded suspension strut inserts and a mid 80's carrera anti-roll bar fitted, now ready for the pair of original 930 wings which I've sourced and are sat in my garage to be bolted on. The rear arches are just about ready to have the new steel flared arches welded into place, then just a bit of filler to smooth out the lines. The rear suspension is from a mid 80's carrera convertible, which again is being reconditioned using new polyurethane bushes, new drop links, upgraded shock absorbers and soon to be purchased thicker torsion bars. I have a set of genuine 930 wheel spacers to go on all 4 hubs, the brakes are all round from the carrera convertible, and I have adapted the car to take the servo assisted master cylinder. in the fullness of time I will probably upgrade the brake calipers, but until then will be treating it carefully!

I must apologise, I think I must have made a mistake in my description of the engine and box, it is a single lump taken out of one car by a seemingly very genuine seller who owned a workshop mainly servicing and refurbishing classic bugatti's, and a showroom selling rare classics, the guy had some awesome toys and rare bits!! But it's been a while since I looked at it in detail, I will take some photos and post in the morning, I'm fairly confident that it is a 4 speed gearbox, and it definitely doesn't have a hydraulic clutch. If this is the case would it fit without modification of torsion tubes?

Many Thanks for the advice,

Rich
Old 08-13-2012, 02:13 PM
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Engine pictures

Hi, fairly certain I was wrong about the G50 gearbox, many apologies. I have attempted to include some pictures of the engine below, 2 of the whole engine and one of the number stamped on the end of the gearbox. Could anyone could help identify the engine/box it and whether it'll fit without having to cut out the torsion bars and fit another set-up instead.

Old 08-14-2012, 02:10 AM
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Old 08-14-2012, 02:13 AM
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Old 08-14-2012, 02:14 AM
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This was a great help for me.

California Motorsports - Porsche transmissions, transaxles, gears, differentials, parts, service, manufacturing

You can find the trans numbers stamped on the bottom of the center case.
Old 08-14-2012, 06:24 AM
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Looks like a short bell 930, but I am not the best on this to ask.
Old 08-14-2012, 06:27 AM
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When you say you have a new pair of 930 "wings" to be bolted on. Are you referring to the rear trailing arms?
Are you aware that 930's have different pick up points compared to an SC?

Mark
Old 08-14-2012, 08:47 AM
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"Wings" are located on either side of the bonnet, ha! Brit speak for front fenders and hood.

Looks like a 930 4spd tranny.

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Old 08-14-2012, 09:08 AM
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