Sometimes balky first gear selection

[S1000RR]

My 86 930 sometimes sometimes balks at going into first, and other times no prob at all. No grinding ever, just can't get the shift lever to go into first. All other gears are fine - other than first its a very smooth shifter. It doesnt keep me from driving the car, but it is a minor annoyance that I would prefer to rectify.

I don't know the history of the gearbox; the car has 90k miles, and the engine has about 5k miles, and I assume the clutch was renewed at the engine rebuild.

As I misspent my youth in a series of $800 MGB beaters, I habitually do not shift into first while moving, and when shifting from neutral to first I always pull it back into second before going into first. Old habit I can't rationally defend.

My first thought is to replace the coupler on the shift shaft, the middle supporting bushing on the shaft, and the ball cup bit on the shifter - easy and inexpensive. But do you think it could be an internal gearbox problem?

Thanks ahead of time for your opinions.

[full quack]

Yep that's how they are...welcome to the world of 930 4 SPD's.

Continue doing your 2nd gear shuffle, it's not a bad habit to have, I do the very same, but not because of past MG experience. I do it because I've been driving a 930 every day for 5 years now....:}

Mark

[Miguel Antonett]

^^^ 1 and I've been driving mine for 25+ yrs.
Yep, the coupling is the first thing to check/adjust. I wouldn't worry about the transmision - may be the first gear synchro is worn but your shifting technique will extend the life of it.

[mark houghton]

Ditto all of the above....even the MG stuff! I replaced all the shift bushings etc but it had no affect on the occasional stubborn 1st gear selection. I always try to grab first just as the car is easing to a stop...but still rolling barely. That seems to work best. Other times I'll hold pressure on 2nd but not engage it, then push into 1st. Maybe that slows the synchros down?

Just a quirk to get used to. More embarrassing than anything else as you fidget for a couple seconds trying to get off before the light changes back to red. Gives the ricers something to feel superior about as they leave you in the dust.

[billjam]

This thread might be of interest.

[S1000RR]

Well, it's nice to know I am in such good company on this issue.

Bill, that thread you posted is great - it ought to be a sticky. The first post in it describes my situation far more accurately and eloquently than I could ever do.

I'm going to replace the coupler et al as it can't hurt anything but with little hope of fixing it. All in all it's not that bad a quirk - it's just those moments when I hear that slammed Honda in primer hitting second while I am still hunting around for first...

Steve

[mark houghton]

Originally Posted by billjam

This thread might be of interest.

Good thread re-surface, Bill. I had forgotten all about that technical service bulletin you posted.

[Novelty Fashion]

I sometimes have this happen in first, and occasionally reverse. If I forget to get it in first before I stop, (it never happens if I do that), I'll just stick it in neutral and double-clutch it into first. Slides in every time with nary a complaint.

Car is an '85 930 with 36,000 miles. Gearbox shift excellently, but I have to manhandle it a bit compared to my old Miata. The shift-throw length and feel is less a "precision rifle bolt" and more like "rowing a boat".

God I love these cars.

[JFairman]

It's caused by the overengineered obsolete and discontinued porsche designed steel synchro units.
They all do that and they all shift slow unless you rush them and wear them out faster.. so get used to it.

Compared to Borg Warner brass synchro's used in Getrag gearboxes for BMW's and the Porsche/Getrag G50, and whatever they use in Japanese car transmissions that always shift nice - the Porsche steel synchros just plain suck.

They have more over engineered little parts like anchor blocks and stop blocks and energizer rings along with the synchro ring, and all these synchro parts add up so they cost more to rebuild than any other synchro unit that I've worked on. And thats not including the ridiculously expensive slider and dog rings.

Maybe they were designed by the same wacko masochist engineer that invented CIS/k-jetronic fuel infection.

[gsxrken]

I've had mine 10 years. In that time I've tried to eradicate the same 1st gear character-building behavior in the following ways:
Gary Fairbanks rebuild
Wevo shifter
New shifter tube bushing
Ed the "coupler-whisperer" delrin bushing
Swepco, then Kendall fill
Countless adjustments- for a while I left the coupler cover off and carried around the ratchet and box wrench on the back seat for when the mood struck

And still, sometimes it's snickety-snick, sometimes it requires a double clutch. Coming straight up from second doesn't hurt.

[fredmeister]

Originally Posted by JFairman

It's caused by the overengineered obsolete and discontinued porsche designed steel synchro units.
They all do that and they all shift slow unless you rush them and wear them out faster.. so get used to it.

Compared to Borg Warner brass synchro's used in Getrag gearboxes for BMW's and the Porsche/Getrag G50, and whatever they use in Japanese car transmissions that always shift nice - the Porsche steel synchros just plain suck.

They have more over engineered little parts like anchor blocks and stop blocks and energizer rings along with the synchro ring, and all these synchro parts add up so they cost more to rebuild than any other synchro unit that I've worked on. And thats not including the ridiculously expensive slider and dog rings.

Maybe they were designed by the same wacko masochist engineer that invented CIS/k-jetronic fuel infection.

So tell us what you really think.....your post was great.

I have the same issues with my 79 4 speed. I replaced the clutch disk and all that other linkage jazz, and still cant find first 80% of the time at a traffic light.
Like everyone else, its pretty frustrating sitting at a green light with the joker climbing over my rear bumper waiting for me to move out.
I dont like sitting with the clutch engaged thru the whole light if I shift into first before coming to a complete stop, as its hard on the throw out bearing, but this does eradicate the problem.

Fred

[Tippy]

Using 2nd gear to slow the input shaft for 1st gear only shortens the life of the 2nd gear synchro that much more.

It works but it's cutting the 2nd gears synchro life basically in half.

[turbo nut]

I use a symmetrical first gear slider and hub from a 76 trans and mine shifts great in to first gear.

[s5uewf]

Mine nicks the reverse gear quite often, otherwise works pretty well. Any ideas why the reverse gear seems to get in the way? Could it be transmission mount bushings are worn out, or can I adjust this out by fiddling with the wevo linkage in the backseat?

[JFairman]

I think you answered your own question.
Just moving the motor and transaxle around a little from under the car with a pry bar or whatever while the motor mount bolts are loose makes a surprising difference in shifting.
Keep trying that and readjusting the shift coupler and it may get better.

[s5uewf]

Yeah, I noticed the trans mount rubbers seemed shot. I think this winter I will have to consider swapping for a wevo rebuild or figure out how to do the same type of thing on my own. I see the trans mount is not built to allow an easy swap out of the bushings.