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Chain fence eating turbo
 
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Quote:

Quote de Tippy




Of the four part numbers that come up here which do you think would work best for my goals 177257 with a .83 A/R turbine housing or the 177628 with the 1.22 housings. It would be interesting to see the maps. Another unit I was looking at was a BW T3/T4OE with the .82 A/R turbine housing.



Garrett T3/T04E Stage III Turbo 57 Trim 475 HP [GAR-STAGEIII-038] - $639.00 : Himni Racing, Turbocharger, Turbo, Garrett, Turbo Kit, GReddy, Mazda RX-7, HKS, Apexi, TiAL, TurboXS, TurboSmart, Flange, Turbonetics, Exhaust, Intercooler, ACT, Intake
I'm not sure about T3 platforms, only have T4 experience.

Others may chime in.
Old 04-05-2014, 10:43 AM
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Just a funny story here if it is appropriate....A guy comes in this morning with an 87 930 to get some ideas and pricing. The 930 is beat to death with almost 200k on the clock. I put it on the rack and what did I see? A WSR GT3582R..... EBAY turbo! TIAL WG and an EBAY IC as well as some B&B headers and the rest all stock. He said he has had it on almost 2 years with no issues. I asked if I could drive it to see if I could find any of the issues he was talking about. Holy cow was that thing friggen' quick. Faster than the 89 I just got finished with all the usual bolt ons/w proper tuning. Ran like a top except a part throttle lean surge which I dialed out for him. Said he paid 350 bucks for that damn turbo and 2 years of use no problems. Spools like an SOB and sounds just like my garrett, I wonder whose cartridges they use? Anybody know?
Old 04-05-2014, 12:16 PM
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GJF GJF is offline
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I've built a bunch of custom import stuff using CX Racing turbos and intercoolers. The castings are really nice as well as the machining. I've seen really bad turbos that the metal was so soft and poorly machined it wasn't worth being a door stop. The Mustang crowd really like them an are making some crazy numbers. Do they perform equal to the real deal....no... But they are fairly close.
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Old 04-05-2014, 12:58 PM
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Chain fence eating turbo
 
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I've read some Cummins guys who tractor pull run these $2-300 turbos from eBay with mixed results. Some have taken 60+ PSI of boost (that's 4 bar ) for years problem and some who only run like 20-25 PSI and grenade them immediately.

Total gamble and not the game we want to play!
Old 04-05-2014, 03:39 PM
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Gamble is right.

I see Supras come in with knock-off ICs and intake manifolds, out-perform the $$$ name brands on the dyno during tuning.

But for every one of those "wins" there's about a dozen FAILS -- cr*p turbine housings that warp, compressor wheels that rub or warp, bearings that seize; manifolds warp, throttle body screws come out...

Gamble.
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Old 04-07-2014, 10:00 AM
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Funny you should mention CX racing and Mustangs. my neighbor here builds big power Mustangs and says he has about a dozen of the builds on the street, no failures and the weakest one is 600hp wheel. probably buying cartridges from a discount int. wholesaler the same ones we find in our upper end stuff. Don't know but I'm gonna find out. I ordered a CX and a WSR both GT3582R'S this morning for dissection/comparison tests..
Old 04-07-2014, 11:01 AM
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Chain fence eating turbo
 
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Quote:
Gamble is right.



I see Supras come in with knock-off ICs and intake manifolds, out-perform the $$$ name brands on the dyno during tuning.



But for every one of those "wins" there's about a dozen FAILS -- cr*p turbine housings that warp, compressor wheels that rub or warp, bearings that seize; manifolds warp, throttle body screws come out...



Gamble.
Problem I've read about with these knock offs too is wheel liberation. Some of these have had wheels fly out of the housings and come through their hoods! That's scary right there!
Old 04-07-2014, 04:08 PM
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I've decided to go with the Borg Warner SX200 turbo It looks great on the map and should spool early. BW sells it only as a T4 exhaust flange, but AGP Turbo has a T3 housing for it so it will bolt right up. List price it $750 The staff there were knowledgeable and helpful. I'm traveling for the next couple weeks but I'll get it installed ASAP and follow up with my impressions.

Borg Warner / AGP S200sx_RS_56 Turbocharger - AGP Turbochargers, Inc. Store
Old 04-08-2014, 01:16 PM
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Chain fence eating turbo
 
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I think that will be a great match. Can't wait to hear your results!
Old 04-08-2014, 04:24 PM
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Chain fence eating turbo
 
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Yep:

"The BorgWarner AirWerks S Series turbos aren't to be confused with the old T series turbos. These AirWerks units are carefully developed turbos for high performance applications. They are 20+ years more advanced than T turbos & are found on many of the top high performance street & race cars world wide. Direct-Fit interchange compatibility with T series turbos, the S series turbos spool much faster & yield more HP. Extremely durable, reliable, cost effective with superior performance & made in USA.

Extended Tip Technology (ETT) Select BorgWarner AirWerks turbos employ BorgWarner "S" generation compressor wheels that incorporate extended tip technology. This compressor wheel design feature promotes greater airflow using low inertia wheel that performs like a wheel of greater size & mass. Extended tip technology enables the user to have faster spool-up at lower engine speeds, while providing the boost for the powerful top-end performance that turbocharger enthusiasts have come to desire."
Old 04-08-2014, 05:16 PM
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Chain fence eating turbo
 
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I think I'm more excited than you, but here's a tuner crowd who hit over 500whp on a ~2L 4-cylinder!:

Borg Warner S256 504 awhp opinions - DSM Forums
Old 04-09-2014, 06:18 PM
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Following this with great interest as Well.
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Old 04-09-2014, 08:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tippy View Post
I think I'm more excited than you, but here's a tuner crowd who hit over 500whp on a ~2L 4-cylinder!:

Borg Warner S256 504 awhp opinions - DSM Forums
I don't know if it is possible to be more excited than I am. With the travel requirements for my job I am having to tamp my enthusiasm down. I am already scheming how I can postpone my Friday departure until Friday night and taking Friday off to install the turbo if things show up in time. We need to talk Megasquirt sometime, might be my next step.
Old 04-10-2014, 04:21 AM
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Chain fence eating turbo
 
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Any time. If you want my email, just PM me. PM'ing MS info is impossible.
Old 04-10-2014, 05:44 AM
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Cost, performance, durability, AND made in the USA? If so that is worth looking in to. The graph in the link shows full boost at 4000rpm which is not quick spooling by any standard. What are the characteristics when mounted on a 930?
Old 04-10-2014, 09:53 AM
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Chain fence eating turbo
 
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Brian, that's a 4-cylinder I referred to. 4,000 in a 9,000 RPM engine potential is spectacular. These guys a lot of times run their engines to that number creating a very long power IMO.

On a side note, BW and Triple-K are one from my understanding, so having a Made in the USA and Triple-K connection makes it seem like the perfect unit for these cars.

Last edited by Tippy; 04-10-2014 at 10:18 AM..
Old 04-10-2014, 10:16 AM
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Always good to see people trying out new things with these cars. We're messing with some of their EFR turbos, will post results when done.

BorgWarner is really trying to get back to a leadership position in the turbocharger market. It's amusing (to me, at least) that some of the features they tout as innovative are old-school tricks they've pulled out of the 3K-division's past portfolio:
- the twin scroll housing with 2 pronounced cast ridges along the outside looks a whole lot like the one made for the K36 from the 934/956/962
- the diverter/recirculation valve built into the compressor cover like the 931 featured
- the large v-band holding the housing, as used on a 930's 3LDZ...
Everything old is new again!
Teasing aside, they were smart enough to see good ideas that weren't being exploited, and combined it all together into a family of turbochargers (mixing in some best-of ideas from Holset and Garrett, too).

Quote:
I think I'm more excited than you, but here's a tuner crowd who hit over 500whp on a ~2L 4-cylinder!:
Umm, about that 29-32psi, umm, yeah... ;-)
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Last edited by TurboKraft; 04-10-2014 at 10:45 AM.. Reason: edit
Old 04-10-2014, 10:44 AM
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Chain fence eating turbo
 
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Heard that too about BW claiming advancement with old technology, but it seems to work!
Old 04-10-2014, 10:56 AM
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Yes having ties to BW/KKK is icing on the cake.
Is there data for the 930 application? Usable power to 6500rpm at low boost levels is what we require, not 30psi at 9000rpm crazy stuff.
Old 04-10-2014, 12:15 PM
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Just so you guys know. BW is still making direct upgraded versions of the 3K turbos in K26, K27, K29's.
Turbo Specific - Borg Warner Turbos - K-Series - AGP Turbochargers, Inc. Store
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Old 04-10-2014, 12:34 PM
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