B&B Exhaust problem

[puddy]

I thought my car seemed down on power lately, I noticed the exhaust has some broken welds. The weld broke that holds the waste gate pipe, so now that pipe is stress by the weight of the waste gate bouncing around going down the road. There are cracks that need to be welded asap. I have a buddy who says he'll weld it on the car as is. Does that seem to be the best way to fix this? Would these cracks in the pipes cause a lack of power? Also I have a 3 day track event starting this Friday so I hope I can get it fixed before then!

[WPOZZZ]

I've had welds on my B&B headers crack as well. I sent them back to B&B and they repaired it for free under their lifetime warranty. However, the welds were not very nice looking.

[Ronnie's.930]

Originally Posted by puddy

. . . There are cracks that need to be welded asap. I have a buddy who says he'll weld it on the car as is. Does that seem to be the best way to fix this?

No, because welding with the pipes still on the engine is taking a big risk, as the welder cannot verify that slag, loose weld material, etc,. is not left on the inside of the pipe (s). If any trash like that is left behind, it will break off, go right through the turbine impeller, and destroy it.

Originally Posted by puddy

Would these cracks in the pipes cause a lack of power?

Yep.

[puddy]

OK, thanks guys! I guess maybe my best options is to just weld that support bracket back in place to take the weight off the wastegate pipe and that should get me thru the DE event this weekend, then next week i'll look at dropping the exhaust.

[911nut]

Most aftermarket systems for our cars (the exception being the Rarlyl8 system, built from 321 stainless; there may be others that I'm not aware of) are constructed from 304 stainless, which is prone to cracking in "hot end" exhaust applications. No OEM's use 304 in the hot end (defined as from engine to cat). The material of choice is 409 ferritic stainless for automotive applications, or 321 stainless for aircraft applications.
Re-welding 304 will result in re-cracking in the future.

[puddy]

OK so if I remove the headers, would B&B still warranty them? If I got them fixed i'd like to try and trade them to someone for a set without heat boxes.

[JFairman]

There's no way that crack can be tig welded all the way around on the car because there's not enough room to get at all of the crack while they are on the car.
Also like has been mentioned you want to make sure there's no particles of metal left behind inside the headers because they will destroy the exhaust turbine wheel in the turbo.

Take the headers off and have them welded by someone that knows what they are doing and it sounds like your buddy may not the guy to do it. He could probably tack weld part of the crack while they are on the car but thats a big risk because the turbo could be destroyed by possible metal slag particles left behind inside the header tube.

I didn't know B&B would fix them for free. That may be for the original owner only if thats true and if all checks out then you have to box them up and ship them at your expense anyway.

They have to be removed to be repaired and welded correctly.
My B&B headers cracked in the same places around 7or 8 years ago. I removed them, cleaned up the metal around the crack with a wire brush on a die grinder and then took them to a local guy to have the crack and broken support bracket tig welded.
He charged me $50 and the headers have held up fine since then.

Good luck with it.

[puddy]

Thanks guys, I appreciate the concern about damaging the turbo, I certainly don't want to do that. However I thought since the welding is happening on the Wastegate pipe, isn't pressure pushing out towards the wastegate and away from the turbo?

We're going to reweld the broken support bracket (top picture) tonight then look at pulling the headers after the weekend. These cracks didn't happen over night so i'm sure if I can just get the support bracket reconnected the cracks wont get anyworse and should be fine thru the weekend. It doesn't look like there is exhaust coming thru those cracks, wouldn't there be black carbon around the cracks? My car runs a little rich.

[JFairman]

"I thought since the welding is happening on the Wastegate pipe, isn't pressure pushing out towards the wastegate and away from the turbo?"

The crack is NOT happening anywhere in the wastegate pipe...
The crack is happening in the weld that joins the wastegate pipe to the header pipes. Any possible slag or burnt metal crap will fall downwards into the headers and get blown up into the turbo exhaust turbine where it will damage it.

On top of that the wastegate is completely closed until boost pressure opens it so none of the possible slag that may be hanging out in the wastegate pipe will be blown out the wastegate until long after the stuff that fell down into the header pipes has been blown through the expensive inconel alloy turbine wheel.

..maybe you should just try it.

[puddy]

OK thanks Jim, perhaps we'll look for a way to mechanically secure the pipe until I can pull the exhaust next week.

[JFairman]

Put a hose clamp around it that holds the wastegate pipe up.

[WinRice]

Also.........when welding any grade of stainless you need the metal to be clean inside and outside so impurities don't get in the weld puddle, causing a flaw that will eventually crack.

[Ronnie's.930]

Puddy, another thing you can do as a temporary fix to limit the exhaust gas/pressure leakage from the cracks is to tightly wrap the cracked area in header wrap and secure it in place with hose clamps and/or safety wire - will get you through your weekend (know from experience).

[puddy]

Yes a hose clamp is exactly what I was thinking. May be a good time to upgrade my turbo since i'm removing the exhaust. I wont have any driving events for a while.

[puddy]

Ah yes, header wrap, i'm sure I can get my hands on some of that too!

[puddy]

Well I got her clamped up good n tight and added a little header wrap around the cracked areas. Should get me thru the weekend.

[puddy]

Next week when I pull the B&B headers, I was thinking about removing the heat boxes, i'd like the headers to be cleaner looking, have any of you ever tried that? Is it worth the effort? I'd rather not buy new headers at the moment and I doubt anyone would want to trade me for my headers once they've been all welded up. I don't know if there would be much benefit in buying new Rarely L8 header compared to my 1.5" B&Bs. Perhaps I can get my headers ceramic coated while they are out too?

[JFairman]

I think Chris at Turbokraft would give you the most accurate and unbiased answers to your questions. Try emailing him, or call him if it isn't too expensive to call from where you are.

[WERK I]

If you have visible cracks, you can bet there are cracks in the heater boxes too. More likely in the area where the boxes are welded to the pipes.

That exhaust must have been noisy!

[RarlyL8]

I do my best to be unbiased. My opinion is no matter what brand you buy get rid of those.
Cracking is like rust, its formation indicates bad things that will not get better through simple repair.
And yes there are many benefits to my headers; 321 stainless (you wouldn't have this cracking problem in the first place), merge collectors, equal length tuned primaries and secondaries, and a vastly improved waste gate circuit. Those are facts not bias, even though I am biased.