Is an engine rebuild possible for a complete novice mechanic?

[911SCRVA]

I do not have any experience working on an engine, but I'd rather do it myself then pay my local Porsche expert 25K+ to do it. I know it's ambitious, but is it moronic of me to consider it?

The only repair work I've done so far on my '81 911 SC is replace the shifter and coupler bushings and deck lid shocks.

Sorry if I'm the 1,001st person to ask this question.

[timmy2]

Buy and read Wayne’s engine rebuilding book.
Then decide if you have the tools and skills to do it.

[911SCRVA]

Originally Posted by timmy2

Buy and read Wayne’s engine rebuilding book.
Then decide if you have the tools and skills to do it.

Thanks, Dennis. Indeed I do have the Bible. It was the first thing I bought after the car. It's also what guided me through the couple of projects I've already taken on.

Wayne uses mechanic icons to indicate the talent required. As a novice, it's hard for me to comprehend what five-mechanic icon level of difficulty is. So I guess I'm looking for anecdotal support or discouragement. As in, "Yeah, I knew a novice who tried. Smart guy, but he failed miserably." Or, "I'd only try it if you could abort and hand things over to a pro if you become overwhelmed."

[Black 993]

I don't think you should try it. Or put another way, you should try it but be prepared for it to not go well. Building an engine isn't like replacing the shifter coupler bushings, just repeated many times. You have to know a lot of little things about a lot of little things, and your hands need to be experienced in how to do certain things and how those things are supposed to feel. I don't know how else to put it.

What might be a better idea is to remove the engine yourself and strip off the exhaust and induction, and present it to an engine builder as a long block. Then when it's rebuilt, do the installation yourself. Some builders won't go for this because it introduces too many variables out of their control. But if you find a builder who'd do it, it would cut down on labor costs significantly.

[911SCRVA]

Originally Posted by Black 993

I don't think you should try it. Or put another way, you should try it but be prepared for it to not go well. Building an engine isn't like replacing the shifter coupler bushings, just repeated many times. You have to know a lot of little things about a lot of little things, and your hands need to be experienced in how to do certain things and how those things are supposed to feel. I don't know how else to put it.

What might be a better idea is to remove the engine yourself and strip off the exhaust and induction, and present it to an engine builder as a long block. Then when it's rebuilt, do the installation yourself. Some builders won't go for this because it introduces too many variables out of their control. But if you find a builder who'd do it, it would cut down on labor costs significantly.

Thanks for your response. Much appreciated. Do you know any engine builders in or around Richmond, Virginia? I realize no engine builder would probably allow it, but I wish I could shadow a mechanic to learn. Have you ever heard of anyone hiring an engine builder to instruct or oversee a novice rebuild?

[boyt911sc]

Originally Posted by 911SCRVA

I do not have any experience working on an engine, but I'd rather do it myself then pay my local Porsche expert 25K+ to do it. I know it's ambitious, but is it moronic of me to consider it?

The only repair work I've done so far on my '81 911 SC is replace the shifter and coupler bushings and deck lid shocks.

Sorry if I'm the 1,001st person to ask this question.

The answer to your question is NO. If you have the desire and interest to learn to rebuild your 911, you could do it. I have disassembled and assembled a 911 motor more than a hundred times and I am not even a professional mechanic. Just an avid DIYer like anyone in this forum.

My advice to you at this point is to over-come your fear and anxiety about 911 motors. It is one of the easiest motor in the planet to work. Many would disagree but I find it fun and enjoyable to rebuild one. Learn how to drop the motor/transmission and you will be on your way to engine rebuilding. Majority of the participants who attended the Engine Rebuilding Workshops in April 2018 and September 2021 had not done an engine drop before but eager to learn rebuild a motor. Some of them have successfully rebuilt their motors.

I will be back home in 2 weeks and will start another 911 teardown very soon. You are welcome to observe and see first hand how it is done. There are more than 2 dozen people failed to attend the last workshop in September due to Covid-19. To deliver my commitments to them, I am planning another workshop in April 2022 and finally retire doing it.

Tony

[Neil Harvey]

Maybe odd for someone like me to suggest this as my daily is rebuilding these engines.

However, you definitely can do this. These are not hard engines to rebuild. They are shrouded in myths about how difficult they are. But if you study how and why, they are really simple.

Here is my advice. And you can email me for any answers to any questions. I'm here to help. I am even thinking of having a professional type school next year. It wont be cheap but it will be conducted in my pro shop with all my experience and knowledge available.

BUILD IT ON PAPER FIRST.

Make a list of the tools required. Don't cheap out. Get good tools. but don't over buy either. A really good solid engine stand is a must, or a solid bench where you can bolt the cradle to.

Decide on a clean area in which to do the build. Plenty of bench space too.

Get in the habit of cleanliness. Clean up after each process.

Break the build into easy to do processes. Disassembly, inspection, cleaning, measuring, machine repair, parts sourcing and assembly. After each process, clean up. The disassembly can be messy, but if you take your time and have drain trays etc, you can keep it clean. Go to Lowes or similar and buy the shop paper towels. Go the restaurant supply stores and buy "bussing" trays and some cutlery tray for small parts.

Understand there will be some parts of the build you may not be able to do yourself. Cleaning is always a bear. You can do the heavy lifting here, scraping and getting rid of the heavy dirt. Lowes or HD have large plastic trays that are used for mixing concrete. Buy one of these and use this to clean the large pieces. You can buy solvent in 5 gal drums from TSC. Just pour it back into the can after use and dispose of it correctly. Once you have the heavy dirt etc removes, have the parts hot tanked and cleaned in a professional wash tank. BUT, make sure its regularly cleaned and the water and soap changed often. Otherwise you will be washing your parts with dirty greasy water. When this is done the galley plugs etc should be removed. In other words, get it professionally cleaned. The cleaning of engines is the most time consuming part of the build. It should never be shortcut'ed either.

Inspection and measuring maybe difficult without the correct tools and test equipment. This is where you should rely upon a good machine shop to do the work for you.

Expect to replace all bearings, chains, chain rails, full upper and lower Gasket kit, chain tensioner parts, etc. The parts that probably will be attention will be the case, heads, crankshaft, rods, Cylinders, pistons, camshaft, rocker arms, to name just a few. Inspection will tell you this. But you may need help here understanding what does need attention. Some stuff is pretty straight forward. If you see scratches, gouges etc, you can bet these will need attention.

The assembly is pretty easy. Take it slow, make sure you have everything correct. If you have any doubts, stop and recheck. Again, break the build into smaller process. Assemble the crank and rods. Fit the Oil pump and shaft. Fit the crank and rods to the case. Glue the bolt the case together. This is understanding that all measuring has been done and is correct. You may want to use a pro shop to do all the measuring etc after the parts are repaired etc.

This is quite common for us to do. We do the final cleaning, inspection and measuring and repair work for many shops and end users. We then supply the bearings etc fit them and do all the final clearance checks etc. All the customer has to do is to assemble knowing all clearances are correct.

I believe the Cam timing gives many sleepless nights. I can honestly tell you, its only because of the lack of understanding of what is happening with the valve motions. This is actually very simple when you have an understanding of what is happening.

[mepstein]

Lots of first timers have built an engine. The advantage you have is you can take it step by step, take as long as you need and ask as many questions as you want. You can also sub out parts that you feel are above your head but still oversee the main project.
First thing to do is pull the engine, clean it, tear it down and clean the individual parts. You can work with your machine shop and get help with measurements. Taken one step at the time, anything is possible.
Watch a couple good youtube videos to get the overall gist of the teardown and build. Buy tools as you need them and enjoy the process.

Neil said it way better a couple minutes earlier. Listen to him.

[doswald]

As usual, Neil’s advice is excellent. If you are prepared to take your time and learn, you can do it. One note, Wayne has 2 books out, one on 101 Projects; and one specific to engine rebuilding. Make sure you have the rebuild book. This forum is an excellent resource, but be prepared to hear conflicting opinions-do your research and make your own decisions.

dho

[Henry Schmidt]

Much like delivering a baby. You can do it but it will be stressful and more complicated than it needs to be.

One simple tip. "Too many minds" will create chaos. Given that there is no "right" way to do most tasks, pick one adviser you trust and follow their lead. Like most things, a consensus will usually muddy the waters.

Good luck and enjoy.

[Richey]

Perfect , Henry's answer is really good , it will be more stressful and time consuming than really necessary , and hopefully it will run well for many years .

[Flat6pac]

It’s always easier to disassemble than to reassemble properly
Bruce

['78 SC]

911SCRVA,

You're getting good advice from experienced DIYers and recognized pros. Some questions:

• what is the problem with the engine? Is it a running, but tired, high mileage original with bad leakdown and compression or is it damaged (over-rev, neglect, unknown history)
• what are your goals? a good running stock motor? a hot-rod?
• what kind of budget do you have? would you opt for new Mahle piston and cylinders or would you economize with replated cylinders and aftermarket pistons?

I agree a DIY rebuild is feasible and lots of us have done it. You need good resources (factory manual, Wayne's rebuild book, this forum), some mechanical aptitude, patience, determination, a good attitude and (as Neil says) a plan.

One challenge for inexperienced builder (like me), is knowing what is re-usable and what has to be replaced. Sometimes it is a matter of measurements, but other times it takes a practiced eye (when I did my first transmission rebuild having a pro look at the disassembled unit and identify what needed replacement was invaluable).

Given all that, you are not too far from Bruce (Flat6pac). You might want to talk to him about options.

Good luck.

[MichaelSJackson]

As you can read, there is a lot of support here if you go down this path. I would not recommend it if your goal is to save money. These guys are all "builders". By that I mean they all enjoy taking things apart and putting them back together. They can't help themselves. So their time spent is never a cost. It's their time and it's what they'd rather do. If they run into a difficult problem, they keep trying and trying. I've seen too many projects end, because of a lack of this attitude.

I bring this up, because your initial query is not what I'd expect from any of these builders. It's more about desire than ability. If I'm wrong, then welcome to the club!

[winders]

Also, should you make one or more mistakes, do you have the time and money to rebuild it a second time?

Besides some innate talent, what makes a good engine builder is experience. If you don't have any experience, the odds of making a catastrophic mistake increase significantly. Contrary to what was said previously, the Porsche flat 6 is NOT one of the easiest engines to rebuild.

[930cabman]

I suggest no, do not attempt. I have built several VW type 1, small block chevy's, big block mopar's, big block pontiac, Alfa 4 cyl dohc (over the past 50 years) and presently a 914/4. One of our current projects is a 914/6 conversion, I have a local experienced 911 engine builder completing the task. Rebuilding a 911 engine is on my bucket list, but given the risk, I am not ready.

Best of luck with whatever your decision

[Neil Harvey]

Originally Posted by Henry Schmidt

Much like delivering a baby. You can do it but it will be stressful and more complicated than it needs to be.

One simple tip. "Too many minds" will create chaos. Given that there is no "right" way to do most tasks, pick one adviser you trust and follow their lead. Like most things, a consensus will usually muddy the waters.

Good luck and enjoy.

Based on some of the replies after this, Henry was spot on.

I cannot offer up anyone else's time but mine. I am here to help from start to finish and all parts in between.

[winders]

Nice dig, Neil.....

Rebuilding a 911 engine is not for the feint of heart and is a tall order for someone with zero experience even with a book and someone on the phone to help. If the OP wants to tackle the job, by all means he should. But, people leading him down the path should note the challenge for what it is. Even people with experience building a couple of 911 engines have been known to make significant mistakes.

[winders]

Oh, and let's not forget the cost of the tools one must buy to do the job correctly.....

[ahh911]

Personal experience,

I found that taking it apart was equally important and time consuming as putting it back together. Patience, using the map/oxy mini torch to remove exhaust nuts, several times over, having never used one it took many tries till even the setting was right, all nuts came out clean, but it was squeeky event. Planning out how to remove the engine, that took weeks to plan, it was so easy in the end that all the study seemed foolish, but it was required. Seeing the car tilted at such an angle online makes you doubt it. Rocker arm shafts, taking them out nice and clean. Cleaning the engine as much as possible before the drop, then getting the engine onto an engine stand then cleaning it all over again, even buying the right engine stand took study and planning, another few days before a plan was reached. Measuring the bore of the valve guides using a split ball gauge (never used one before), removing the valves and looking for burrs up top the stem where someone had pinched the valve, that would rip the guides up and did, but the guides needed replacing. Buying the right/strong valve spring compressor that was sturdy enough but not too expensive, that took time.... Cleaning out the rocker arm shaft bores without scratching or enlarging, them, in the end it was simple but again planning, simple 2000 grit or even paper with paint scratch polish wrapped over a piece of rigid aquarium tubing and rotating only to the depth outside of the functional area, it goes on and on. But the dissaembly is what teaches you the re-assembly, you study/read about the re-assembly before dissaembly, that way when you remove everything, the questions you've asked yourself get partially answered. Measuring the timing chain sprocket alignemnt before removal just to see what Bentley/Wayne are talking about and checking learning a technique. Checking and measuring tensioner height and how much room there is for the tensioner to expand before it maxed out, gives a feel for the chain wear, all this I did along the way, and much more, so dissasembly and cleaning was equally or more important because this is our first view of how the engine is assembled and works. I've been playing with cars, even at age 20, my dad and I did a head gasket and I helped, etc... so, without that basic foundation of doing all the work on every car over 20 years, I'd be reluctant to take it on myself, I'd say, send it out.

Phil