Engine Swapping Question

[126coupe]

I swap engines in the race car more than I would like to admit. Here is the problem: To get the engine from the engine stand to the Jack requires assembling the engine hoist, hoisting it off the stand and lowering it on to the Jack. In addition removing the engine from the car requires assembling the hoist (PIA) to raise it up to the engine stand.
Asking neighbors in my neighborhood is out of the question.
I saw a motorcycle jack at Pep Boys bot they only raise up to 16 inches!

The perfect solution would be a jack, like a motorcycle jack that could raise up high enough to install the engine and raise high enough to put on my engine stand. Modifying a motorcycle jack is an option but I would rather just buy something.

Another problem is the engine w the tranaxle installed and exaust system teatering on a jack is pretty scary, using 1 person. I would like to make this a one man job.

Any suggestions???

[axl911]

I took some 2x4 and build 8 inch hich stands to put underneath the motorcycle stand. This would allow me to slide the engine stand underneath the motorcycle jack.

Then it's a simple job of 1) put motorcycle jack (with engine) on my 2x4 built stands, slide the engine stand in, raise the engine using the motorcycle jack up until it is as high as the engine stand carrier, then bolt it in.

---
anthony

[axl911]

OOPsss...that first sentence should have said. "I took some 2x4 and build 8 inch hicG stands to put underneath the motorcycle JACK. This would allow me to slide the engine stand underneath the motorcycle jack.

[hobieboy]

sorry i m a bit slow, but how do you put the engine & the motor cycle jack on the 8" high stand in the 1st place?

[ChrisBennet]

I don't know what your setup is like but I just attach a come-along to the ceiling beam and hoist it up that way.
-Chris

[126coupe]

Thanks Chris, but I would have to Install a beam.

I might have something fabricated on a motor cycle stand
that "cradles" the engine and trans axle. That way i could roll it around to the engine stand and to the car

[Henry Schmidt]

The engine is far easier to remove by itself. When I started in the Porsche world 30 years ago I worked at a shop where there were no hoists. It was always our goal to remove the engine as quickly as possible because back then we were all on commission. The way we did it was with two jack. One under the center of the chassis directly in the middle with a 2x4 that reached from one side to the other. When I say middle I mean right along the rear bulk head. The jack would fit directly under the hole where the shift shaft goes into the car.
The 2x4 supports the car along the bulk head seem. One jack stand on each side for safety.
First disconnect the battery, then the shift coupler. The idea was to disconnect everything on top, fuel lines, wiring , breather hoses. Then go under the car with all the tools you need to just dive once.
Jack it up, drain the oil (both plugs, and the trans if your plans include trans service) then disconnect the fresh air hoses, oil lines, backup wires , starter wire and the two lower trans/ bell housing bolts.
Now back on top. With a second jack placed directly under the sump plate (use a fixture or board if you like) jack the engine until you just raise the engine off the mount. Undue the rear mounts (2 12mm bolts) and slowly let the engine down. You need the watch the muffler because on some Porsche it wants to catch on the license panel. when the engine is 10 or 12 inches down you can reach around the back of the engine a disconnect the top trans bolts throttle linkage and the starter wires. At that point the engine will slide back so now you must lower the engine until the fan housing is lower than the chassis cross brace in the back. when the fan will clear, pull back on the jack and engine at the same time and it's out.
My best time for a 2.4 MFI engine is 22 minutes. Star to finish including draining the oil. For that I won a $3 burger and some fries. Times have changed.
good luck.
PS: Don't try this on a 90 or later car.

[len911]

I have successfully used an ATV jack from Pep-Boys to do my last drop/reinstall singlehandedly. I just had a board under the headers and a rope in front to secure, just in case. Usually have neighbours come over to place in eng stand. Beer and car talk always works! I actually had 4 nephews and my son lift a 3.0l I'm rebuilding this Txgiving. Took about 20 secs. Lou

[axl911]

Oh, how did I get the motorcycle jack and the engine on the 8 inch 2x4 built stand?

When I lower the engine, i did not drop the engine on the motorcycle jack. I built a palate /w 2x4 to sit between the engine and the jack. the palate is much wider than the engine and the jack.

I then moved the engine and motorcyle jack to another area of the garrage. Put 2 tires and more 2x4 on the edge of the palate so i can lower the engine/palate onto the tires. Now I can remove the motorcyle jack, or put the motorcycle jack on the 2x4 built stands and raise the engine/palate again.

I did this the very first time I drop the engine. Did it it a single car garrage along with tools, tv, etc. Did it in the middle of the winter. Rebuilt the engine (topend) the first time I dropped it. Damm...it was a miracle everything worked.

[wilke3169]

At the time of my engine drop the jack would lift to within 6" or so of the tailgate of my pickup. I slid the engine in, the stand was about 6" above this so I raised the engine a foot in 6" increments. Mounted the yoke first then slid it into the stand. i did this alone. This was engine only of course.
I did remove the tranny for reinstall. I used an ATV jack on the engine end. On the tranny end I used the base from a small shop rolling stool. Small round platform, four caster type wheels that worked great.

[sammyg2]

I use an ATV jack like the one pictured, but I still have to rent an engine hoist to get it on and off the engine stand.

Years ago I borrowed a handy tool from my father, it was basically a hand operated forklift for lack of a better description.

Like a pallet jack with a cable winch.
I used it when working on 914s and it was the kind. I even used it to raise the back of the car high enough to get the jack stands under it.
Maybe that is the answer?

[sammyg2]

Herer's a picture of a similar device to the one I described in the above post, mine wasn't as fancy as this one and had a load limit of 750#

[wilke3169]

Hadn't thought of that Sammy. Those are often used by HVAC contractors to lift and install ductwork and equipment in buildings. Most rental store have them as duct lifts. Great idea.

[126coupe]

Henry,
Thanks for your input, but apparenlty you misunderstood my question. I was simply asking is there a hydralic jack on the market that can cradle the engine and transaxle for removal and subsequently I can rool over to my engine stand, raise up the engine high enough to the stand to mate the two? Of course the transaxle has to be removed first. I appreciate your lesson on removing an enigine from a 911, but I have been removing and replacing engines in my race car for over 6 years. I have refreshened or rebuilt my race engines over 10 times (only 1 failure in 6 years). I also worked for a Porsche shop for 2 years doing all the engine buillding with no failures or leaks. I have come along way since I worked with you side by side on my race car in 1998. This has been proven over the last six years racing with VARA and the reliablity of my race engines.

[Henry Schmidt]

You're right. I misunderstood you question.
I was just trying to be helpful.

Wow you build/rebuilt 10 engines, now I see that you don't need my help.

[126coupe]

len911,

the ATV jack looks like the answer. How high does the ATV jack raise up? I need 24 inches from the floor to my engine stand. If it does not raise that high I can "shim" up w some 2x4's. Now I could avoid getting my hoist out of the rafters, assembling it(PIA) and simply roll the ATV Jack under the engine, remove the engine and tranaxle, disconnect the transaxle, roll the engine to the engine stand and attach.

One man job, no neighbors and best of all I wont be rolling the engine and transaxle around the garage teatering dangerously on a regular jack!

It also solves the problem :when I install the engine and I'm bolting up the tranaxle bolts I dont have to have the wife steady the engine from up top!

[126coupe]

Thanks Henry,

I realize you have built probably hundred's, but I believe when you get past 10 the "learning curve" diminishes drastically. The proper tools, books, this forum some mechanical ability makes for a very enjoyable "hobby"
In fact I enjoy building the engines as much as racing the car!

[Henry Schmidt]

Originally posted by Minkoff
I enjoy building the engines as much as racing the car!

The way you drive, I don't blame you !!!
Just kiddy.
In fact the last time I saw you drive was at Fontana and both your driving skill and your car were very impressive.
Keep up the good work.

BTW: Thanks for getting me involved in this forum. It has been a very enjoyable experience.

[len911]

Originally posted by Minkoff
len911,

the ATV jack looks like the answer. How high does the ATV jack raise up? I need 24 inches from the floor to my engine stand. If it does not raise that high I can "shim" up w some 2x4's. Now I could avoid getting my hoist out of the rafters, assembling it(PIA) and simply roll the ATV Jack under the engine, remove the engine and tranaxle, disconnect the transaxle, roll the engine to the engine stand and attach.

One man job, no neighbors and best of all I wont be rolling the engine and transaxle around the garage teatering dangerously on a regular jack!

It also solves the problem :when I install the engine and I'm bolting up the tranaxle bolts I dont have to have the wife steady the engine from up top!

Just checked the manual... Says 16"... Shimming sounds like a good idea. It is nice to have the two parallel arms and not a single pint of contack like in a regular jack. I actually used a large 4"x4"x2ft under the seam, by the rear torsion tubes to hoist the whole body up. Worked pretty good. Thinking about notching the tunnel to facilitate drops, straight down instead of back and down. A nice piece of sheetmetal with 4 sheetmetal screws should cover the hole. I guess you could always use 2 tires under the jack to build height. You could build some kind of scaffolding to hold the engine in place while you gain height with the jack and tires. The Egiptians did it, why can't we Just don't drop it! Lou

[Jeff Alton]

What about one of those craddles I have seen that fit a standard floor jack and claim to balance the motor and trans perfectly? I think Pelican sells them. I have used the ATV jack and the floor jack but agree it is a hassle getting it onto the stand.

Cheers