Anyone? Seems I've also read someone using grease and another hi temp anti-seize on these gaskets. Either of these work?

Searched this thread and others to no avail.

I used Curil T on the intake runners-heads on my 3.2 build.

I use grease on my intake gaskets, especially for carbs. You can take the intake on and off several times without damaging the gasket.
I rub the grease in and wipe off all excess. I use Swepco grease.
I've done this for over 25 years, never an issue or leak. Of course this is for paper intake gaskets only.

I also true up the manifolds, flat surface like glass with sandpaper, 180 grit is the finest you have to go.

I wouldn't use anti-seize.

^^^ Good advice there by Mark. I'll also add that it's a good idea to true up the plastic/phenolic spacers to avoid leaks. With flat manifolds and flat spacers, you should have no issues with leaks.

Case Thru Bolt Adhesive Cure Time-Saver Method
 

I read through this whole thread and didnt catch much detail on the case assembly method where you assemble and torque the thru bolts without the o-rings then go back and put them in afterwards, to help you get everything torqued before the adhesives cure. Here is my assumption of what it is:

1. Follow normal assembly procedure with stated adhesives/sealants.
2. Install case thru bolts, washers, and nuts without o-rings.
3. Torque case thru bolts and perimeter nuts per normal assembly procedure.
4. Wait for all adhesives to cure completely. (how long is this? a day or two?)
5. Come back and remove one thru bolt at a time, install o-rings with Dow 55, reinstall in case and retorque.
6. Repeat with all case thru bolts in the original tightening order?

Can anyone confirm? Thanks in advance.

The timeframe on the box is even smaller, it reads as 1 minute. Sorry, but I'm confused as to how everyone is closing up the case in the required time if the sealant is starting to tack off even before the sealant application is finished.

This time actually refers to "working time", the time you have to evenly spread the sealant onto the mating surface.
It doesn't matter if it starts to tack/skin after it's applied, you then have a 15-20 minute window for putting the halves together.

I've used this on several magnesium chainsaw cases where the engine case is part of the fuel tank. This is a 100% perfect sealant for this job and if it can seal a tank up for fuel it will have no problem with oil.

But, why?

Confirming you can put all of this together, with the o-rings and Dow 55, in one go. I.e., follow the normal procedure with the recommended sealants and lubricants.

Having a helper makes it less stressful. As is practicing installing the thru-bolts to get a feel for: 1) is your crank going to turn freely, 2) I know how long it is going to take, 3 all the tools are ready, 4) and the workbench is organized to make it happen quickly.

It went pretty fast, and now, even 7000 miles later it doesn't leak.

I suppose the only reason would be to add a bit of a safety factor in making sure you get everything torqued before the adhesives kick off.

As much as I would like a helper, I dont have much access to one at the moment and I am literally about to seal a 3.0L case.

Loctite 574 versus 518:

Ok, having a difficult time finding Loctite 574 here locally, but 518 is available.

Is 518 ok to use on the cam towers to heads sealing surface? I need to proceed with this tomorrow - cannot wait for next order... :)

Thanks,

Tom

#8 bearing sealant
 

Is the Threebond 1211 used just on the o ring or is the entire #8 bearing given a thin covering?
thanks

Not on the o-ring itself!

Reviving this never-ending great thread.

Most everyone here likes using Loctite 574 on the main bearing webs due to its additional shear strength it adds, especially to unpinned mag cases, aiding the cessation of chatter which occurs in these things. I cannot say how successful 574 has been in helping these situations or not, hopefully someone can chime in? Anyway, it was brought to my attention by a Loctite rep that a low or medium strength retaining compound such as 509 would actually be a more appropriate for this particular application. Tensile strength of 509 on aluminum or mag is about 40% stronger and it is also anaerobic. My concern would be that because it's stronger, how much more difficult would that make for the case to come apart again? Don't personally know how difficult it is taking apart a case treated with 574 on the webs, but we can say it might be a bit more difficult?

My shop is very near Road Atlanta so we have all manner of reps going through the area and I happen to catch this gentleman today at the machine shop I use and we discussed the topic a bit. Just a note re an alternative and if anyone cares to comment.

574 is tried and true but the cleanup of cured sealant is kind of a drag with today's solvents (weaker). Not a big deal. Just worth mentioning.

I know the chatter you speak of on the main webs. Seems to be the norm on these engines. I've heard some pros say they don't like the 574 goop on the main webs because it can prevent complete bearing "squish" or "crush" as they call it. The 574 does squeeze out quite well, so the residual amount left between the mating surfaces seems quite thin. I would just be sure to spread the 574 or 509 as absolutely thin as possible here.

Regarding the effort required to break the bond, the last engine I did had the orange goop on the webs and it wasn't excessively difficult to get the case apart. But I had used the white threebond 1184 on the case perimeter and that stuff doesn't make the case halves stick together like the 574. So I can't say with certainty how much extra effort is needed with the additional 574 placed on the webs.

Another good solution to the web chatter is sleeving the case through the through-bolt bores. Craig from G2 Performance does this with stainless sleeves and he notches them where there are oil delivery passages for the piston squirters. Also saw Neil Harvey doing this on the basketcase rebuild update recently posted.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/911-engine-rebuilding-forum/951269-home-built-engine-build-saving-unsaveable-2.html#post9772917

Does anyone know if Supertech still sells their complete adhesive packages? Its on their site, but the checkout feature isn't working (page is blank). Also, it says they will call to verify order prior to actual order occurring? Is that SOP?

I will probably just call, but was trying to save them some time on the phone as its a small order...

KTL, the point you mention is interesting. I wonder how much crush you lose by using the 574 near the through bolts...

When I test reassemble my case this weekend I may just see and measure...

Bo

You can also buy the Supertec kit through Pelican.
SPTC-SUP-CSK-001

Cool, didn't know that?

Searched here for first for all the components and none of the Loctite products showed up...

Did buy from our host...

Bo

I'm in Wisconsin... And it just got cold. In the 50s today...

Anyone have comments on using these sealers in cold, but no freezing, weather?

I would think you would have a longer working time, which may be a good thing...

Any negatives or folks having issues?

Will be sealing my heads to cam towers soon with Threebond 1194. The sealing surfaces on my heads are currently a nice shiny machined finish and my cam towers have a nice finely textured bead blasted finish. Provided they are clean are these surfaces ok to mate as-is or should one be changed for another?

Folks, have you guys applied threebond to both case halves or only one? Bought the sealant kit, no instructions inside. Some posters put it on one side and reported it leaked? Couldn't find a definitive answer...

Henry?


Bo

I would do both because it skins over pretty quick


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Thanks! Will do.

Have a great thanksgiving.

Bo

I only used it once, see what the min temp you can apply it at, if it’s 50 I would apply it as cold as they allow giving you more time to assemble


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One side only as per TB instructions.
Cleanliness is paramount.
Apply a moderate bead and spread it evenly. I use my finger to insure that the sealant is adhering.

Link to the instructions? None in my box... Or are you referring to the fine print on the tube?

It's 50 -60 degrees in my garage... What do you figure safe working time is? Seen posts mention 10 minutes to 30 minutes

The instructions are printed in the package.
"apply as thinly and evenly as possible"
I interpret that to mean, coating one side is thinner than coating both.
As far as work time: I apply the sealant and put the case together quickly. If you're set up and ready to go, time shouldn't be an issue.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1511397815.jpg

I've decided to use Threebond 1211 on my #8 nose bearing during assembly and wanted to verify where to put it exactly - on both halves @ the case bearing web all around? Is it better to try NOT to get it on the o-ring or OK to get it on the o-ring? Is it OK if it get's in/near the oil supply hole in the case & in the bearing itself? Super thin coat so as not to mess w/tolerances as much as possible...?

Just want to be clear so I have the best chance for success.

Also, I'm assuming that doing this slightly amends the assembly procedure and timing as the crank has to be OUT of the case in order to apply the 1211 in the nose bearing area, THEN the crank goes in the case, THEN you apply the perimeter & main bearing web sealant, THEN you mate the case halves... All of which adds an extra step or 2 during the scramble to mate the case halves before the sealant goes off - is that correct?

Thanks so much,

Tom

Tom, I have only done a couple engines, but they are not leaking.. yet.. and I used 1211, 1104 and 574.
I put the 574 on the main bearing web surfaces first since it wont go off until absence of O2... then I applied a very thin coating of 1211 to the nose bearing itself all around(bearing is on the crank, but not in the case), being careful not to get it on the o-ring.. if a tiny bit gets on, it shouldnt matter. Then I quickly get the 1104 on the perimeter, then crank goes in, and it all gets buttoned up.

Pretty sure that is the process you had outlined above. To speed it up, I put my through bolts all in and torqued down, without putting the o-rings on.. then went back one at a time, and removed each through bolt and put the o-ring on. All this did was save a bit of time in getting the case torqued down. I am sure that the pros don't need to do this step and work a lot faster than I.

Thanks Mike, that's more or less as I assumed...

A further #8 O-ring question - so if the 1211 goes on the nose bearing itself, avoiding the O-ring as much as possible, the O-ring is essentially getting installed dry?

The reason I ask is that in my test-fittings of the crank in the right case-half, I've been having issues pinching the #8 O-ring to the point of cutting it. (Try finding a replacement viton #8 O-ring outside of a full engine rebuild seal kit - it's not easy!) Test fitting w/a little oil on the o-ring provided much better results...

So, I guess my question is: using this method, is the O-ring installed dry? and if yes, what's the technique to doing it cleanly w/out slicing and/or pinching the O-ring between the case halves?

Thanks,
Tom

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1519140676.jpg

On my 3.6 rebuild I put some Dow 111 grease on the o-ring, well on all the o-rings in the engine.

Hi Magnus, did you use just Dow 111 at the #8 bearing or in addition to Threebond 1211?
Thanks,
Tom

Just the 111 on the o-ring, not saying that is right, probably not...but its dry at the moment.

Dow Corning 111 on the o-ring is a great choice. The silicone paste of course lubricates the o-ring and also protects the rubber from long term oil contamination/degradation.

Bump...cuz I need this thread.


MattR

yeah this needs a sticky like the no start thread in the turbo forum

Hi everyone,

First time 911 engine rebuilder.

Has anyone made a start to finish video of themselves applying the currently recommended sealants and assembling the case halves? An assistant holding a modern cellphone from a location where they would not interfere?

Thanks,

Mark. 1989 911 3.2

well, i do not have start to finish but check my videos , applying the 576 loctite..only to one side of the engine case..the one without the oil pump

Ivan

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IandhtwG5no
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZoOEFOkC2aA
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=STWf7WnC4xo

engine case marriage....
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fKsuUBZih78

Some of you might find this interesting.

I recently helped open a factory sealed 996 99/00 cup car engine. The engine had nearly 400 hours on it with the factory seal intact.

They clearly used a silicone sealant vs the normal 574 and there were lots of strands of sealant everywhere. Just thought I would share. The engine overall was in great shape minus the 20% leak down in each cylinder and it being down 100 hp. Some wear on teh bearings but not bad considering the number of hours and about 19k track miles.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1546699407.JPG
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1546699407.JPG

These are the strands we removed from the inside of the case. Curious what everyones opinion is regarding this since this is so similar to the earlier cases especially 964/993.


http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1546699629.JPG

Factory recommended case sealant, but it looks like young Dietter was a little heavy on the application.

SI 5900 is a superior RTV, squeeze out doesn't swell from oil and when applied properly any squeeze out stays put. I even think the long strands from to much sealant may be by design, it doesn't break off in chunks small enough to get past the pump screen. You will have fun removing that RTV, it doesn't like to come off, even after soaking in diesel.
Torn down quite a few 996/997 engines and have seen the same, but it was never part of the issue.

RTV gets a bad rap because peeps only think of the permatex stuff, but Threebond, (yamabond) is RTV, so are many others.
Loctite SI 5900 is factory spec, LN recommends it, look at Raby's vids...that's what he's using.
I use it on 996/997 case halves, plus I rub it into (no excess) many paper gaskets I install. It's definitely not the same as the old permatex.

I appreciate the response. I don't recall seeing SI 5900 in the manuals but just at the tear down and inspection stage so sealants are a number of weeks out also depends on if we repair it as stock or update to the 01- hydraulic lifters and larger valves. We have most everything we need EBS can get me the rest.

So Loctite is superior to the (yamabond, hondbond, threebond) whatever you want to call it?

Thx