Henry & Andrew, may I suggest that you guys find a way to work this out someplace besides this fine thread about engine sealants.

You both have passionate opinions, nothing wrong with that, but the tone of the thread has deteriorated.

Thread CLOSED.

I have been asked to reopen this thread. I have done that, but deleted the annoying and non-useful posts. Let's keep this to a technical discussion, not a playground pissing match please.

-Wayne

Thank you Wayne

Why not make it a "sticky" and close the thread? There's good information in here and will make it easy to find. Every conceivable question has been asked.

Thanks Wayne! Now if you could figure out a way for me to edit the first post again I could keep it up to date :)

someone please save me re readung 16 pgs here...I do not see a listing of what to use on the oil return tubes o-rings...my guess is to treat the o-ring material as it is = use dow corning 111 as used on case thru bolts o-rings...? is this correct...?
Also, any suggestions on what to use on valve cover gaskets to prevent them from leaking...? i realize many a valve cover is leaking due to it either being loose, or over torqued and/or the valve cover mating surface to the gasket is not flat...putting all of that aside, any insight into what may help the gasket NOT leak...? (I use the silicone bead lower gaskets which help but interested in what may be used = a goop, to add the the gasket to help prevent/minimize leaks)...
thx all & thx wayne for keeping this thread open...)) bob

I added my suggestions in bold below

The best product we (old dogs) have found so far for oil return tubes and joint ring o-rings is Dow 55 o-ring lubricant but Dow 111 should be a reasonable substitute..
It has special properties that enhance crush resistance and after installation and heat, swells the o-ring to enhance sealing. Petroleum products tend to create a issue called wicking that actually helps oil bypass the seal.

Valve covers are a different issue altogether. Flat sealing surfaces are key. Even turbo valve covers will get warped over time. Wrightwood racing offers a green lower cover that is treated with a sealant (unknown) that really works with problematic lower valve covers. One caveat: the glue that helps them seal makes removing the cover a tedious endeavor. For fresh rebuilds where a valve adjustment will be needed soon, I use the Wrightwood Racing lower valve cover gaskets with a silicon bead.

perfect...!!
thx kevin & herny for the info... )))
all set kevin for the sample of goop...= I have these materials in the shop...
carry on...have a great day...
bob

...or go with the Hargett billet covers that our host sells and never mess with sandwich gaskets, crush washers and warping covers ever again. Ever.

Pelican Parts - European Automotive Parts and Accessories - Porsche • BMW • Mercedes • Volkswagen • Audi • Saab • Volvo • MINI

Hargett Precision makes a very nice product. The problem is that some Porsche owners are looking for authenticity and they don't look very original.
To combat some of this, we worked directly with Mark @ Hargett Precision to produce a slightly more period correct version. We are pleased with the overall results.


http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1426714614.jpg

Hi guys
What's you take on rsr rocker shaft seals?
Some people say to put them on dry and torque a little more than speck.

What do you Guys do?
Thanks
Erick

Light coating of krytox on far end receiving hole. Light coating of same grease on trailing o-ring in assembly process. This ensures the o-ring is lubed without contaminating the surface of the rocker that requires oil film.

Tighten following Bruce Anderson method.

What is Bruce Anderson's method?
Thanks

Leave them out, crazy expensive and almost impossible to fit without damaging them.
You would need to slightly chamfer each shaft bore not to slice the seals.

The seals themselves cost about $2.25 each. I'm installing them on my 3.4 build. I want to eliminate all possible leaks/weeps of oil on engine. When I disassembled the engine there was lots of caked up grime and oil on the outside of this area of the cam towers. We are trying to make sure these little mess makers are eliminated.

If the cam towers are in good shape RSR seals are not necessary. That said, they don't hurt.
Lube the o-ring with your favorite lube (my preference is well documented and proven) and tighten to 180 inch pounds. It generally takes two allen tools for this (we have special tools for this). If the cam tower is still in good shape this should suffice. Once the 180 inch/lb mark is reach, try turning the shaft with just one wrench. If the shaft rotates there is a chance that the rocker shaft was overtightened by a previous "expert" so the bore is now enlarged. At this point you can tighten the shaft until it stops rotating or replace the cam tower.

Tighten to spec, then turn with one wrench ensuring the opposite end is stationary.

The rocker shafts at rest measure about 17.97mm.
Fully tightened they grow to just over 18.16 mm
The difference between conical ends can be as much as .09mm depending on manufacturer.
By tightening the bolt from 160 in/lb to 180 in/lb you get an increase of about .025 mm. It';s not a lot but sometimes it's enough.
I have seen cam housings expanded so far that no amount of torque would set the shaft.

Hi guys
Need a little clarification for what to do for
1-For Intermediate Shaft Cover WITH ORING
2-breather cover ( with or without gasket)
3-turbo injection blocks
Thanks

Cheers

Thanks
Btw does the oil pressure switch by the oil breather have a sealing ring to it?
Thanks

Sorry all for bringing up this old thread but I had it saved for when I do my rebuild.

I am working through waynes book, I have alusil so kept the pistons and cyliders together.

it would seem I am to use Curil T on the base gaskets. when putting the pistons and cylinders together. if that were the case am I supposed to do the heads and cam towers all at the same time in order to bolt it all down to get it to seal ? my plan was to put all the pistons and cylinders in , take a break and maybe a day or two later work on the cam tower and heads. I am thinking this will not work now if I have to put it all together due to the sealant on the base gasket and compres it all relatively quickly.

I was thinking of changing the order and putting my heads and cam towers together on the bench and sealing with my 3 bond. that I think can be bolted together, then when I put my cylinders on with my curil T and base gaskets I have my heads and cam tower ready to bolt on, and compress the base gaskets and sealent, means changing the ordr of Waynes book so I thought I would ask. I am doing a head stud reapir only and the heads were fine and the machine shop took nothing off. They just cleaned them up and replaced the seals , said they measured out perfect, point is I don't need to do any preassembly to check clearances.

Thanks for any opinions on my approach.

Curil-t does not cure. Ever.

So there is no rush on the base gasket.

If you use 574 between the cam tower and heads, you do need to torque those nuts down in less than 1 hour

Reality is, it takes about 15-20 minutes to torque all 18 nuts on one cam tower.

1104/1184 rubber sealant is much more forgiving. It takes days to cure.

I would add that putting the heads on the tower on bench and torquing would not be my first choice. Stick with the Wayne book order.

Curil T on the base gaskets is sort of a belt and suspenders approach to double ensure there's no leaks. But in my limited experience the Curil T is a bit overkill. I've seen three 3.2 Carrera top end jobs that not only reused unbroken dilavar head studs (only disturbance they saw was loosening of nuts for head removal & tightening head nuts for final assembly- studs were left in the case) but also the base gaskets under the cylinders were not replaced. They sealed again OK. I know this because one engine was my '87 done in '06, another is a close local friend's '87 done recently and the third is a friend's '88 done in '06 that I got a close look at in 2014 when he asked me to help him sell it.

My point is, using new base gaskets like you're doing is going to seal good due to the crush/squish of the new gaskets. So the Curil T isn't a must. But it's not going to hurt anything if you do use it. Just don't use it on the crankshaft radial seals!

great info thank you very much guys, given that the curil t never ever cures, ( I do realize it is overkill ). I will go ahead and put the base gaskets and pistons/cylinders on with a thin smearing of curil T. Then over the next day or so put the heads on and then the cam towers.
I did figure I could just put the heads on the cam tower independently on the bench in the comfort of my basement workshop, and torque down the nuts, but if the general opinion is against this I will do it on the engine directly.
Thanks again.

The heads & cam tower is a personal preference thing. A lot of the guys that do engines all the time prefer to assemble the heads onto the cam housing and then install that assembly as one completed unit. So don't feel like you gotta follow Wayne's book if you prefer the other way. If guys that do this type of work for a living assemble them that way, and their work approach is to avoid customer comeback service/problems because it costs them time and money, then you can feel confident that it's an OK way to approach it.

Sorry to ask. But there is a lot of info to read through in this thread. Is the below the latest correct method. Is there anywhere this info exists in one location?

I'd stay clear of 574 for the cam tower to head sealant. Loctite!

+1 to matt... can someone correctly update ALL of the sealants in one list and post a updated list now...

Suggest including Dupont Krytox GPL 207 in the list at least as an alternative as we've shown, ad nauseum, the dow grease widely used actually weakens o-ring strength.

you must be talking about on the through bolt o rings.

i am just going with the list as published on the first pae for now, you are always going to get differing opinions so you have to just decide on a plan and go with it.

well i just reattached my heads to the cam towers.
Cleaned it with brake cleaner then isopropyl alcohol until the clean room wipes were clean. cracked open my expensive threebond 1104 and holly crap. I squeezed until my head was aboutto pop and nothing came out, brand new too.. i thought maybe i needed to jamb somethign further down and still nothing.

so now what , i reached for the 574, i only had a 1,69oz tube as i just got it for sealing gaskets.. went on a lot easier , i didnt brush or roll it on so i just lay a bead around the openings and two beads from intake to exhaust ... did at two stage torque with 12 then 25 ..NM i did an inspection and saw orange coming out all away around the outside of the hiusing and inside too so i am happy , not sure if i have enough for the other side but we will see.

Whats up with that 1104 ? is it really that hard to work with or did i just have a bad tube ? wasnt cheap either i must say . there is no date code on the box or tube.

The 1104, or it's later model numbers, comes out like toothpaste...

Hondabond 4 and Yamabond are both rebranded Threebond. Same slow drying non hardening gasoline resistant grey stuff in a different color tube.
Cleans up easily with wash laquer thinner or brake clean on a rag. It's a little thinner than any toothpaste I've ever used.

I got a tube of it at the local Honda Motorcycle dealer parts counter for less than $7 and used it on the cam tower to head surfaces. It works well with no leaking and I've never seen a Honda or Yamaha motorcycle leaking oil at the case seams.
I works well on the chain cases too.

i squeezed that 1104 till I thought the tube was going to explode and about a quarter inch came out. I must have been using an old stock tube. Guess i'm going to visit a motorcycle store.

O shoot. Me too.. it didn't seem right.. thick as hell and did not want to come outta that tube. I wonder if I am screwed.

EXACTLY what I found, it just did not want to come out no matter how hard I squeezed, and the stuff that did come out seemed vulcanized already to some degree. I got it off ebay so god knows how old it was. I am holding off on my second half. gonna see if I can find some yamabond at the local motorcycle dealer. This 1104 I have is total crap.

not the news I want to hear Im about to seal up my case with a new tube.