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-   -   90 C2 - 964 rebuild (http://forums.pelicanparts.com/911-engine-rebuilding-forum/314761-90-c2-964-rebuild.html)

CBRacerX 01-03-2007 07:17 PM

I've done the CV rebuild many times, so I applaud your ability to keep things clean with all the moly spewing about :)

BlueSideUp 01-03-2007 08:37 PM

Those loose fitting clamps may be a DOT requirement to protect the end of the hose. I remember reading that the main difference between DOT approved and non-DOT approved brake hoses is the protection of the hose ends.

JWPATE 01-05-2007 07:54 AM

Thanks fellows for your inputs

BlueSideUp………… I would agree that most often, when we explore the reasons for what appears as illogical engineering by Porsche, the roots will be found in government regulation, usually for safety or environmental reasons.
I doubt that is the case with those loose ferrules on the C2 fuel hoses though, because such a DOT rule would have applied to all car builders. And BTW, did you notice that photo on this thread, by axl911, of a 993 fuel rail? It would appear the loose-ferrule idea had been dropped before the 993 production.

Chris...........yes indeed, I could not agree more. Moly grease is certainly difficult to work with, without ending up covered in it. I don’t enjoy using it, and practically never do, except for the Lobro CV joints. Even then, be thankful for thin rubber gloves and paper towels.

JWPATE 01-05-2007 01:55 PM

A TRIVIAL PERSUIT

I had to pull the fan out anyway because I wanted to change
that bearing before it goes bad.
So while apart it wasn’t much more trouble to separate the
housing also, and give them both a cleanup. Who can resist a
little polish at this point? Nothing serious mind you, just done by
hand.
This time I want to try a product called Shark Hide. It is intended
for aluminum, and widely used by boaters………How will it do on
magnesium?
Anyone already tried it? More intended as a sealant to stop
oxidation, rather than a finish, we shall see.


http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1168037522.jpg
On a more serious note, and probably more interest to others, I
received the head back today along with a broken-stud removal
tool. Actually, of course, it is a precision jig for drilling out the
broken stud.

Some among this Pelican group are truly talented and capable of
designing and fabricating such fine machine work; such is the
case with Christian Sokolowski. This is a high quality tool, just
developed for the 964 specifically, and will be invaluable in the
event of a broken exhaust stud. I have no stake whatsoever in
the project but can certainly recommend getting one of these
while Chris has them. You will not find them anywhere else!

Christian Sokolowski
rsr911@neo.rr.com

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1168037629.jpg

A Quiet Boom 01-05-2007 10:03 PM

James,

Thank you so much for the kind words. Actually having a 964 head in my hands for the design process was absolutely invaluable. Overall I believe this tool will be even more accurate than the tool for earlier engines since the O-ring groove is for lack of a better term "square" with the stud holes as if machined all in one setup. Also there isn't the issue of stacked tolerances when using replaceable port disks like the early car tool. I am so impressed with Porsche's level of quality that I'm convinced there is no other automaker in the world in which I could precisely locate using the port and one stud as a reference.

As for availability, I have a few of these available right now and will make others as need be, these are made from 5/8" steel as I felt machining the ring into 1/2" steel would make the tool too thin. I'm a hobby machininst with an old CNC so now worries about future availability as I always appreciate making a little money to help offset the costs of my hobbies.

Anyway I just finished reading this entire thread and I've bookmarked it, I'm very impressed with your attention to detail and can't wait to see the final product of all this work you've put in.

One more thing, if you get a chance post a pic of the "business end" of the tool so others can see how it locates with the ring. I so wanted to snap some pics while I had the head here but my old digicam is dead and the new one hasn't arrived yet, cell phone pictures were too fuzzy to post.

CBRacerX 01-06-2007 03:29 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by A Quiet Boom

As for availability, I have a few of these available right now and will make others as need be, these are made from 5/8" steel as I felt machining the ring into 1/2" steel would make the tool too thin. I'm a hobby machininst with an old CNC so now worries about future availability as I always appreciate making a little money to help offset the costs of my hobbies.

One is already sold ;)

JWPATE 01-06-2007 07:41 AM

THE SOLOLOWSKI BROKEN-STUD TOOL

Happy to put up another view of this fine tool, this time showing
how it fits so precisely into the exhaust port.

It may interest some to know that the missing stud in this photo
was actually drilled out using this very tool as the jig.

Contact Chris if you would like one too. This particular specimen
is not for sale!

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1168101624.jpg

JWPATE 01-06-2007 01:39 PM

I finished up the half shafts today, and they are back in the car.
This photo, taken just before the splines and threads were
painted with Optimoly HT, was to remind myself to ask others
about those clamps for the rubber boots.
Right side on the shop towel is the original style. It is hardly a
clamp, but rather looks as if the boots themselves are now tight
fitting enough to seal the grease in without clamping. These
seem more like back-up straps to prevent spreading of the boots
under centrifugal loads while operating at high speeds. I say
this, because I cannot see any way to tighten them sufficiently to
call it a clamp.
On the left, is the universal affair that came with the new boots.
It does have an ear for tightening, but I don’t like it because the
universal nature of the strap requires those perforations all
around – which in time would damage the boots.
What I have decided to use, is another after market CV clamp
which seems better, at least to my untrained eye. This smooth
clamp is in 304 stainless, and the clasp arrangement allows the
strap to actually be pulled up nice and snug, after which the
excess strap is cut away.

Does anyone know the full story of why Porsche decided on that original style??


http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1168123062.jpg

JWPATE 01-07-2007 02:08 PM

…back to, THE MAIN EVENT
First put the cooling air ducts in place. Then just snug up the
knock-sensor bracket bolts.
Lay out what will be needed for one bank, including Dow Corning
111 for the oil return o-rings, LubroMoly LM for the head stud
threads and washers, and ThreeBond 1104 for the cam
tower/heads joint.
Lube the studs – place sealing rings on the cylinder tops – fit the
oil return tubes.
Heads into position with washers/nuts loosely fitted.
Final cleaning of the sealing faces on heads and tower.
Paint 1104 on the tower face and position it over the three
heads. Rubber mallet will help seat the tower on the locating
dowels.
Quickly but deliberately get the tower washers and nuts on and
snug. Torque in sequence, and in two steps – 10 lbs. and finally
17 lbs.
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1168210898.jpg
That exercise took 15 minutes from first brush stroke till last nut
at final torque. Now relax and move on to head studs. In
sequence, and I used 10 lbs, then 20 lbs, and finally 32 lbs
(these are Super Tech head studs).

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1168211052.jpg
Starting to again look like a type 911 engine. Next will be to
check whether the cams are a sweet fit.
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1168211135.jpg

JasonAndreas 01-07-2007 05:40 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by JWPATE
I had to pull the fan out anyway because I wanted to change
that bearing before it goes bad.

Where did you source the replacement alternator bearing and if by chance do you happen to know the ABEC rating of the original Porsche bearing?

JWPATE 01-07-2007 06:38 PM

Jason,
I got the new fan bearing from out host, Pelican. Part #
96410605130. It comes complete with the fan hub and bearing.
Sorry, I don't have the rating for the bearing - nor do I know
where to look for it.
I didn't change the alternator bearings, but if you locate a source I certainly am interested.

JWPATE 01-09-2007 01:27 PM

New chains and rails I think are in order. The sprockets looked
OK.
One thing to watch for if renewing the rails, are these locating
caps (plastic), and the split pins that retain them to the long,
straight guide rails. The new rails will not come with these parts,
so you can change them over from the old rails.
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1168381215.jpg
This is how they look when in place. These locating caps restrict
how the long rails must be fitted to the engine. The easiest way
is to fit the curved guide rails in place on the engine case first
with the retaining pins in place, and then have the long rails
positioned inside the chain housing when you offer it up to the
case. After the housing is fastened down, then fit the retaining
pins for the straight sections. A medium pry bar can be slipped to
the engine side of the rails and easily snap them in place on the
retaining pins.
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1168381274.jpg
I used Dow Corning 111 on the big O-rings and to lubricate the
rubber inserts on the metal, housing-to-case gaskets.
ThreeBond 1104 was spread on the metal part of that gasket,
both sides, and also on the paper gaskets between cam end
covers and heads.
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1168381450.jpg
Sprockets are both tightened here, and ready for
measuring/deciding what changes may be needed in the shim
numbers.
That will wait a day or two though………the Home Entertainment
Show is in town, and I shall go have a look at the latest and
greatest being offered in the world of high end audio.

JWPATE 01-11-2007 12:28 PM

Well it will have to wait now while I get some additional cam
sprocket shims. Strangely, the original engine set-up was with
two shims under each sprocket.

I measured today and the left side needs one shim added, while
the 4-5-6 side needs two additional shims.

This will end up with three left and four right……..just as nearly
every engine seems to require.

CBRacerX 01-11-2007 12:42 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by JWPATE
Well it will have to wait now while I get some additional cam
sprocket shims. Strangely, the original engine set-up was with
two shims under each sprocket.

I measured today and the left side needs one shim added, while
the 4-5-6 side needs two additional shims.

This will end up with three left and four right……..just as nearly
every engine seems to require.

I found _exactly_ the same thing in my 1990 964 Engine, which had never been apart before. Perhaps the same assembly person...

JWPATE 01-11-2007 02:10 PM

That is interesting Chris. One might be tempted to imagine
that the measuring business just took too much time to
bother with..........

JWPATE 01-13-2007 01:15 PM

………….”if ya can’t duct tape it, then its jus broke”

The good ole boys in Louisiana have a point; duct tape is useful
indeed.

I attempted several approaches while searching for a way to do
this measuring job without a second pair of hands. This is the
only one which would give accurate, precise and repeatable
results. It is a Starrett, number 385 straight-edge with a depth
micrometer tightly taped firmly in place.
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1168726370.jpg

While waiting for more shims, I combined the ones I have and did
the 4-5-6 sprocket. Came out within three thousands as
expected from the initial measurements.
Must wait now for more shims.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1168726442.jpg

JWPATE 01-18-2007 03:42 PM

I got the needed extra sprocket shims, and now both sides are adjusted to spec.

Today I set the camshaft timing, and tightened the sprocket
nuts. All straight forward and without issues. Nice to be back at
work.


http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1169167279.jpg

axl911 01-18-2007 08:08 PM

Wow.....that's the factory 964/993 chain tensioner. Can you make some quick measurement on how much the tension depresses the chain?

Lots of us including myself have been using brake pad spreader and power steering puller to tension the chain. But it is always a question on how far to depress the chain ramp to put tension on the chain.

I would really appreciate this bit of info.

---
anthony

ischmitz 01-18-2007 08:15 PM

As far as I remember there is no torque specification in the WSM on how to tighten the factory chain tensioners. I used a 2mm thick strip of metal with one M12 thread cut into in the center and two holes to mount it to the opening. A long M12 screw and voila. Doesn't look as impressive but worked just the same....

axl911 01-18-2007 10:12 PM

The factory manual specifes the tensioner must be tightened until "the recess on the plunger must just barely remain visible". Also, there is a specific left and right tensioner tool.

So there is a specific distance the tensioner tool must depresses the chain ramp. I would like to know that distance.

---
anthony


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