Replating Nikasils

[Doug Steinel]

Is it true that Nikasil cylinders that have been worn out of spec can be replated and then ground to spec? Any idea how expensive a job this is?

[Henry Schmidt]

You can expect to spend $100 to $125 per cylinder.

[Grady Clay]

We regularly have our cylinders replated with our go-kart engines (Honda CR-80). They were subject to far more abuse than most can ever give a 911 (27 hp from 80 cc @14,000 RPM.) Interestingly, the price was about the same in spite of having to deal with all the complexities of 2-stroke ports.

I can see this as a good solution, particularly with a single damaged cylinder. I don’t think this best with a set of worn out P&Cs.

Henry,
What is your experience with replated cylinders?

Best,
Grady

[Henry Schmidt]

Originally posted by Grady Clay

I can see this as a good solution, particularly with a single damaged cylinder. I don’t think this best with a set of worn out P&Cs.

Henry,
What is your experience with replated cylinders?

Best,
Grady

Generally it is not a good solution for a full set unless something special is desired. [ 2.8 =92mm or 98= 3.2 or 3.4 or even 102= 3.8] all of these size cylinders are very expensive so boring and replating makes sense. If you have a set of Alusil (silocite) cylinders and you want to run a forged piston plating also makes sense. If you are plating for JE pistons I recommend sending the pistons with the cylinders so fitment (tolerances) can be more accurate.

As for quality, we have had only one problem. It dealt with QC (small anomaly in one cylinder) and the plater corrected the problem immediately, without charge. I will state that plating Alusil cylinders seems to produce a better product. I'm not certain why but it may mean that Alusil is a more stable material ?

[Glenn Yee]

Doug,

Either Nikasil or Alusil can be bored and replated. Quality Control can be an issue if you don't know where to go. Contact Ollie's Automotive in Santa Ana for an opinion. Do not use people with big ads in Pano. The sets I have had done at Ollie's are under.01mm for ovality over the total cylinder length AND it applies to the whole set. That's precision. Price was reasonable for what you got...something like $1100 including the welding and cutting for crank clearance.

Good Luck

Glenn Yee Motorsports, LLC

[Henry Schmidt]

All shops have at one time or another, erred in one form or another. The test of a good shop is how they handle those errors. A simple oversight can become a nightmare if the errant shop has an attitude that "they can't be wrong".
My experience is that some shops handle errors or perceived errors better than others.

[ajwans]

How thick can the nikasil plating be applied? Can they plate 100 microns (0.1mm or 0.040")?
I would like to bring my 80mm 2.0S cylinders back into spec. Can a biral cylinder be plated at
all?

andy

[dtw]

Originally Posted by Henry Schmidt

Generally it is not a good solution for a full set unless something special is desired.

Why do you say that, Henry? Any longevity concerns?

A moot point for me, I guess. I called you last year when I was hunting & exploring options. Ended up with a beautiful replated set of 90mm Mahle holes, and brand new set of Mahle pistons all from EBS. I'm really pleased so far, they broke in quickly and I have no smoke.

You make a good point about service, Henry. I discovered a flaw in one hole that I didn't like one bit. Snapped a pic, emailed them a photo, they agreed, and a new set of 6 was on my porch FAST, and before I even sent back the other set.

[Glenn Yee]

Ajwans...I would suggest calling Ollies. They have since my posting, 4 years ago, been able to escape Kalifornia and have moved to Havasu, AZ. Several years ago, I had a "set" of cylinders that had been "done" by a very prominent supplier sent to me by my client. When I measured them, I found that I would need to have 3 different size pistons made to match the cylinders 3/2/1. I returned them to my client and started over using Ollies to do the entire bore and replate. I've been into over 500 6 cylinder engines including GT3 Cup and race engines as well as all models from 1964. I ALWAYS check the last person's work and that includes Ollies. Ollies has by far the best track record. You will hear nothing from them but, virtually everyone that uses them, recommends them.

Among their client base include: Brumos Porsche, FL; Scott’s Independent, CA; Auto Associates, Conn.; Gunnar Racing, FL; Andial, CA; Porsche Motorsports, CA (PMNA), Champion Racing, FL; Kellymoss Racing, WI; Rennsport Motorsports; Patrick Motorsports, AZ; Thoroughbred Motorsports, PA. These are among several hundred of their clients. Think about it!

[Steve@Rennsport]

I'd concur with Glenn,....

We do the majority of our machine work in-house but certain engine case operations get sent to Ollie's as I think they are the best.

FWIW, any cylinders needing to be replated should be honed (or bored, then finish-honed) using torque plates and then replated as needed. This makes a consistent end product that will be round when the engine is reassembled.

[ajwans]

Can it be done though? I'm looking to reuse the original cylinders but
will need to plate birals about 0.1mm in order to reuse both pistons and
cylinders. Otherwise I'll be buying new pistons from JE and overboring
the cylinders 1mm.

andy

[YTNUKLR]

Originally Posted by ajwans

Can it be done though? I'm looking to reuse the original cylinders but
will need to plate birals about 0.1mm in order to reuse both pistons and
cylinders. Otherwise I'll be buying new pistons from JE and overboring
the cylinders 1mm.

andy

Hi Andy,

Can't do Nikasil on Iron...LN Engineering does seem to offer a reconditioning treatment for Birals, however. I'm not sure if they can put back that much material though.

Good luck,
Scott

[Steve@Rennsport]

Originally Posted by ajwans

Can it be done though? I'm looking to reuse the original cylinders but will need to plate birals about 0.1mm in order to reuse both pistons and cylinders. Otherwise I'll be buying new pistons from JE and overboring
the cylinders 1mm.

andy

Hi Andy,

No problem,........ NASCAR has been plating their iron block for years and your Birals can be Nikasil plated, too.

Now, its NOT cheap to do and the main advantage is reduced friction for your application. My suggestion would be to have your Birals bored and honed 1mm oversize using torque plates and installing the appropriate pistons as needed.

[ajwans]

Originally Posted by YTNUKLR

Hi Andy,

Can't do Nikasil on Iron...LN Engineering does seem to offer a reconditioning treatment for Birals, however. I'm not sure if they can put back that much material though.

Good luck,
Scott

Sorry to be a worry wart guys but I want to understand more about this
process before I send my precious parts out.

A couple of people have now said that the electroplating process will cause
the iron to attack the aluminium fins and I will end up with a lump of worthless
priceless piece of antique automobile hardware.

Ollie's have told me that they can have it done, no caveats. Anybody have some
more insight into the process Ollie's supplier uses which plates the surface
despite the disimilar materials.

Better to be sure than sorry.
andy

[YTNUKLR]

I've never tried to replate Birals. I learned something new myself in that it was possible. Hope somebody chimes in . Cheers-

[tom1394racing]

What about the 3.0 SC cylinders?

I've been told that the seal ring groove limits the amount of reboring/replating and that the process does not work for these cylinders.

[jcge]

Nikasil / Electrosil

Andy - here's someone you might talk to locally....I have not had any dealings with this company and so cannot provide any insight as to quality, price etc. But might be interesting to talk to them or pay them a visit as they are based in Melbourne.

FWIW - Nikasil is a trademark of Mahle circa 1967 - any aftermarket "equivalent" process is by definition NOT Nikasil (unless they are paying a royalty to Mahle for use of the name). Try looking under other names like "Nicom" etc

example NiCom

John

[ajwans]

Electrosil told me straight up that their bath would disolve the aluminium.

andy

[YTNUKLR]

Originally Posted by tom1394racing

What about the 3.0 SC cylinders?

I've been told that the seal ring groove limits the amount of reboring/replating and that the process does not work for these cylinders.

Hey Tom--

The 3.0SC cylinders can be replated in Nikasil, but the bore has to remain 95mm. If you want to BORE and replate them, then one needs to start with the 3.2 Carrera cylinders, which don't have the sealing ring. In that case you can take them out to 98mm.


Best regards,

Scott

[tom1394racing]

Scott

Thanks

I suspected as much.

How thick is the OEM Nikasil plating??