Haltech re-labels Bosch units. I have been displeased with the durability, service has been excellent.

I have also read the service manual for the Kawasaki now, and you are right they require 100 volt to operate unlike normal coilpacks.

To your question this company has tones of connectors for japanese stuff.
http://www.dataspares.com/acatalog/cconnectors.html

"Also,
other than getting a wiring harness is there a source or part number for the connectors for the coils?"

This has a simple solution :D. Discovered today that the conector for the Ford EDIS VR sensor is the same and should be available from a multitude of sources (dealer, NAPA, Checker, etc.)

Now, it needs to be determined if these coils will work. Time for some more research.

Paul

I am not sure I understand this stuff but:

It looks like the compu-tronix system turns the distributor into a sensor that determines which cylinders are supposed to be up for ignition. Then it must use a trigger that replaces the points to fire the expected cylinder (s).

Why could not this approach be used with the stock 3.2 Motronics ignition signal in some way?

It would take a small additional controller of some type that senses which cylinder is to get a spark (like the compu-tronix system?) from a sensor at the distributor and use the Motronics ignition signal to trigger the timed spark.

A custom twin plug chip map would be best or could just retarding the spark using the fuel quality switch on the factory ecu.

No timming wheels or other drivers needed and could be a snap in system.

JohnJL
Using the Bosch 3 channel ignitors (2 of) operating two Ford 6 pack coils. No problems.
Are your ignitors mounted with heat sink goop, and to ample size heat sink.

Paul

I'm a little confused.......what else is new?! :)
OEMEXP says he's been using these Ninja coil-over-plug units for years. Yet, the Ninja ignition system uses 100V drivers for their COP coils. Which is right?

OK, here comes another alternative:

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1228122876.jpg

This it the coil used on Audi/VW 1.8 T engines, part number 06B 905 115R. They are relatively cheap new, as they have had big quality problems, so you want the latest version of them.
This link shows a conversion to use them on another Audi engine, but one can use the information for any other engine:
http://www.s-cars.org/postnuke/downloads/pdf/18tCoilPackConversionInstructions.pdf

They fit quite well on our engines, but you will either have to use plugs with a smaller hex socket or cut down the sheet metal on the coil a little.

The 1.8T coils are pretty cheap at $30 new from the dealer, but even the new one's have issues. Ask any 1.8T guy and most carry at least one spare at all times. Even the new 2.0T coils are starting to have similar issues with as little as 15K miles! 75% of my customers are modded late model VW/Audis so I see this failure every day. Luckily they are easy to change and easy to diagnose on a four cylinder. My concern would be to put a coil with a questionable track record into a critical twin plug situation where a faulty coil is more difficult to diagnose.

This is a deal killer, for sure.

Yes, I borrowed one from a friend :)


What I've heard is that they fail mostly on modified engines (high boost), not stock ones.
I'm running a pretty stock N/A engine and single plug, so they will probably be fine. Beside we does not know what the Kawa-coils has for track record.

To expand on this, any COP soluotion woud have this potential problem. It should be possible to build some kind of monitoring/varning system that monitors power consumption from each coil.

Mike, do you know how or what that fails in the coils?

Sorry Magnus, when I think twin-plug I'm always thinking about a 930:) No offense intended to my N/A brethren!

Yes, I would guess that these would be under less stress in a N/A application. Most chipped(reflashed) 1.8T run a peak of 18psi that tapers due to a small turbo to about 14psi toward redline compared to the stock boost of 12psi tapering to 9psi. They fail in both stock and chipped situations, just more often in chipped vehicles. So they could be fine for N/A application. I'm not sure what dies in them, some just die completely others start misfiring under load.

Any chance of doing the airplane thing....you know, where they have twin magneto's and turn them off one at a time and see if the engine starts to miss?

I was thinking that an "A/B" switch on the dash would be a good thing, not sure about the electrical part, where you could turn off the upper plugs and then the lower plugs and see how it runs.

Obviously, if one of the COP's is bad the engine would miss badly if it were idling on only 5 cylinders....

Did anyone ever answer the question as to why some of these run on 100volts when on their motorcycle installation but get along fine on the 14.6 v auto system? Or do I misunderstand?

Dennis

This is exactly what the old twin plugged Porsche racers had - twin switches in the dash to turn the separate Bosch CDIs on/off.

Which procedure, I hasten to add, is best performed at idle RPM with the car stationary!

And pretty easy to build into the system.

To update this tread, I have completed the build and are using the VAG coils right now, only single plugged. They work great at least this far, ~1500-2000 miles. I was really cheap and bought the coils used from the junkyard, shouldn't have done that, one coil was a dud.... But I carry spares now along with the complete set of tools I already have in the car....and a laptop....

You are using the R version compared to the above conversion recommendation of the L version of the coil. What is the difference? Are these ignitor and coils combined or are you using an separate ignitor/controller on a "dumb" coil? Any idea of the coil voltage/energy available and what spark plug gaps they can drive in relation to a boosted engine?

I use mostly R-coils, no difference other than reliability.
They are integrated coil and ignitor. They get triggered by +5 volt from the ECU.

The pdf I link to are slightly wrong in the wiring diagram, or I misinterpreted. Both earths from the coil should be earthed directly to the chassie. The 12v to the battery and not from same point as where you get the 12v to the ECU. Only the 5v trigger should be connected to the ECU.
Don't ask me how I know... ;)


Edit:
Not sure what kind of energy they put out, its not a limiting factor on my engine in any case.
They are used on Audis turboengines that are being boosted pretty good, but as commented above with a less than good track record.

I heard that the coils looked pretty much like the coils usen in the 996/997, never seen those, could be worth checking out.

I used a GM v6 coilpack $50 on my EFI,I am going twin plug and will wire in three spare outputs from the ECU to create the spark.You shouldnt piggy back the wires it will lose the signal and find the easiest path
http://photos-e.ak.fbcdn.net/photos-...55964_9929.jpg

We want pictures, we want pictures, we want.... :D

Anybody else running these yet. Seems to be a lot COP buzz going on in other forums, many with high buck pricetags that use the 997 COPs with custom valve covers so you can bolt them down. These (and the Audis) just seem a better solution.

Cop
 

Not running them yet, but gathering them for my next project(s). http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1258091639.jpg

regards,

Al

I just picked up four cheap, including the wiring harness. They are pretty neat! Eight more coils and two more harnesses to go...

Kenik,
Keep me posted. as soon as I complete my current project......it's on to the next big thing.

Regards,

Al

Which coils are these?

They are the ones I am referring to below.

I did a test fit last night to check how well the Kawasaki (Denso) coils fit our engines. Net-net...amazingly well. :cool:

Length: Very good; comparable to Beru plug leads.
Fit: You have to unscrew the spark plug terminals to expose the threaded ends on the plugs for these to attach. The coils, as a result, grab on tight and don't let go. I don't foresee these things letting go.
Plug hole size: The coils are quite a bit wider than the stock plug wire leads, but are still small enough to accept the Beru rubber surrounds. :D

Summary: These things fit great, hold great and look damned close to stock when using the rubber plug surrounds. I do not see any issue with these, in terms of fitment. If you are worried, it would be easy fabricate a bent sheet metal piece, attached to the closest head cover nut as extra insurance on the bottom plugs.

I say use them! Here are some crappy camera pics to illustrate.

Without rubber surround:
http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c7...n/IMAG0209.jpg
http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c7...n/IMAG0207.jpg

With rubber surround:
http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c7...n/IMAG0210.jpg
http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c7...n/IMAG0211.jpg

For reference, the ones I tested with are the newer Kawasaki ZX9/ZX12 coils. There seem to be several variants between the different bikes - the earliest ZX6 coils look a bit longer, so I'd avoid them as I think these fit awesome. Here are some reference shots of the Denso part number and side profile:

http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c7...Denso_Part.jpghttp://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c7...Denso_side.jpg

BTW, I have come up with a method using the stock valve covers and the Boxster Beru "bolt down" types of COP, which should be incredibly easy to execute. This will allow these to be bolted cleanly to the valve cover and should satisfy those out there that are "Porsche parts or no parts" in dememanor.

I am going to pick up a used Beru COP to test it, then report back.

These look like the ticket for a COP setup! I have been waiting for something cleaner than a bunch of wasted spark coils for my twin plug setup. You could always modify the plug hold downs available for twin plus wires.

Bill

VERY good point - I forgot about these:

http://www.pelicanparts.com/catalog/.../RSRspclip.jpg

Why make them when you can buy them for $60? Sweet.

Kenik,

That's what I was thinking. I wonder if you could just do a similar thing with the Boxter coils?

Perhaps, but it would look Ghetto since they have the mounting bosses.

I will go ahead and share my metod for mounting the Boxster coils, so someone else can try it. Since the Denso coils are the way I am going to go, someone else more motivated should try it.

1. As you will recall, the section of the valve cover that the plug sits in is dry (e.g. not bathed in oil). Thus, use a Beru (Boxster) coil as your template for placing the coil on the valve cover, turning it to line up the holes so that the bosses line up within the "dry" area of the valve cover. DO NOT set the alignment so the holes line up over the oil bathed part of the cover!

2. Use a machinist's spring loaded punch to mark the hole centers on the valve cover.

3. Get a riv-nut gun and the proper sized riv-nuts for the coil mounting bosses:
http://wurthindustry.thomasnet.com/ImgMedium/6image.gif

4. Drill the valve covers to fit the riv-nuts, then use the riv-nut gun to set the riv-nuts. This is how they work:
http://www.emhart.com/products/pop/i...popnut_000.gif

5. Voila, perfect mounting points for Beru coils.

Kenik,

This is exactly what I was thinking, though the RIV-NUT is much easier than what I was going to do. What ignitors are used with the Beru coils?

Bill

I just ordered one off of eBay for $44 new part number 997.602.102.00

They have a set of Six shipped for $239 Coils on eBay

I will see how it fits on both top and bottom.

Bill

Any EMS should be able to ignite them from the ECU's ignition ports.

Thr Kawasaki coils are nice and looks snugg, but I'm still skeptical. Has anyone of you read the service manual or other Kawasaki information?

What is the impedance?

Not sure yet - I need to look it up.

subscribing, this looks like what i need

Subscribing.

This subject looks really interesting.
I am just starting a rebuild of a 3.6 964 N/A engine for next year's project car (whatever it may be!) and I'd love to try this.
I have already decided to use motorcycle throttle bodies as ITBs, so a nice clean ignition setup would complement that nicely.

Keep the info and photos flowing.

just a FYI megajolt is coming out with a controler for COP next spring, looking better