Rebuilding and Supercharging 3.0L
 

There aren't many supercharging threads on 3.0's so I thought it might be a good idea to post. For now, we'll do the rebuild. The supercharging may merit a separate post when we get there.

I started to hear a trrrrrrrrr sound when I accelerated hard. Inspection showed two broken head studs at #1 and #4 (exhaust of course.) The car is a 79. Mileage is unknown (due to a broken odometer- that urethane gear was practically disintegrated) but is over 100k. In 2004 I did a clutch replacement to Sachs Sport, and cleaned up what was nearly 30 years of grime, so I have experience in engine drop (though this is my first rebuild.) I purchased the requisite books and had some from before: Haynes, Bentley, 101 Projects, Bruce Anderson and Wayne's Engine rebuilding. That and the advise from this board should make this a doable project. A friend offered to let me use his garage and lift and there we went.

I could kick myself but I forgot to take the picture with myself in the engine bay (my bad.) Maybe I can get that one in as we lower the vehicle before we put the engine back in.

The Plan:
Install a SOK whipple SC
Use Electromotive HPX unit for ignition
Updated Carrera tensioners
Use Supertec head studs
Remove air injection system
Split the case (for inspection and to seal correctly and get rid of all leaks)
Possibly add water injection

Try hard not to go way down the slippery slope!

I don't want to change Ps & Cs this go around. In the future, after a couple of years, I may go to the 3.2 short stroke (with lowered compression on the pistons.)

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1231901171.jpg http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1231901269.jpg
The air pump had been removed in 2004. The drop was straightforward.
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1231901483.jpg http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1231901658.jpg
Isn't this a lot of carbon deposits on the intake manifold? There was a period of time it was running very rich. Leak from the top of the valve cover?

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1231901865.jpg http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1231901900.jpg

Anybody know why the top near the breather cover is always so nasty? The oil switch was replaced in '04 and so was the gasket to the breather cover (it did not leak) and so was the o-ring to the thermostat.

The exhaust nuts were removed cold with no broken studs. It did go through several days of dousing with PB Blaster.

The air injection system will be completely removed.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1231902242.jpg http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1231902272.jpg
I had the mechanical tensioners with the collar to avoid collapse. This is being upgraded. As suggested in other posts, I practiced looking at the cam timing. The chain doesn't look stretched. You definitely need the special Porsche tools to remove the cam nut.

More pics to come...

Nice thread start!:)
What shape was the breather hose in? In my case, the hose was dried and cracked from the heat, so oil was leaking from it.

Disassembly continued
 

Thanks Aurel:

Your rebuild inspired me and provided lots of good info. Hopefully this one will do the same for others. The breather hose was relatively new, since I replaced it in 2004. I bagged the end that connects to the cover when I took it out and did see some oil pool in the bottom. The cover is somewhat oily so that may just be it.

Here are other pics.
Lower studs (including the two broken ones) are Dilavar (non-magnetic) with a goldish tinge.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1232250535.jpg

The 4-5-6 cylinders, the effect of the broken stud is seen on the bottom left of the leftmost cylinder (the #4).

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1232250555.jpg

In the heads, we see it in the mating part on the upper left of the leftmost head.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1232250608.jpg

Next we have the broken stud on the lower right (exhaust #1 cylinder) with cylinders in place.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1232250634.jpg

I lifted the #4 cylinder and took a picture of the #4 broken stud. There is only about 3 mm (1/8 in) left. The number one is about 1/4 in (6 mm) out. I'll take it to a pro to get them out of the case and won't fiddle with them myself.

So far the hardest part was removing the piston pins. They were tight. After reading several posts I heated the heads. They went out easier but still had to be banged out. I took a tool to flare tubing and put a bolt through the piston pin then tightened the bolt. This allowed the pin to start moving. then banged the tool until it came out. Here is a picture.


http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1232251133.jpg

More to come later...

Update
 

Here's the second broken stud. There's more there but not a lot:

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1234230818.jpg

Here's the short block:

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1234230868.jpg

The dilavar lower studs came out without heating. They were removed with double nuts. Only 3 of the steel studs came out without heating. I used a heat gun to remove the others:


http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1234231244.jpg

After removing flywheel, pulley, and case bolts, the parts went to JB racing near Orlando, FL. They are cleaning them up and I'm waiting for an update soon!

Excellent project, good luck.

Have you sourced an SOK already? What are your intake and intercooling plans?

And is that the heat gun you used? I'm surprised it did anything, I go straight to MAPP gas!

looks very good.

Try to check out this website: http://www.opcon.se/index.asp?sPage=1&langID=1&cID=14

They should make som really good twinscrew superchargers.

Best of luck

Jesper

John, I already have the SOK kit. At least, based on what I've seen, I'm pretty sure it is a SOK kit. I have not been able to get the manual, the one I found was for the Paxton on a 3.0 and for a Whipple on a 3.2 (which is a more complicated setup.)

I used the heater because there was no gas in the torch and figured I would try the heater since it was handy. I had to use the heater for at least 5 min per stud, and after a while, the whole case was hot. It threw the circuit breaker a couple of times. The bottom ones all came out without heat.

As far as intercooling I am not planning to do it, but will use water or water/methanol injection if needed. As far as I know, the previous owner did not use anything. The SC I have has no name or manufacturing ID, so I don't know yet what compression it will provide.

As far as intake, I am using the '79 runners on the system pictured below. The throttle body and fuel distributor seem to be from an '81. I may put the parts from the '79 and may need some help on where to connect all of the CIS components on this thing.

Here is the intake system:


http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1234418236.jpg

Here is a partial test fit:

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1234418265.jpg

Here is the SC by itself:

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1234418297.jpg

Jesper, I checked out the website you provided and saw that it was one of the ones I had been looking at to try to determine who made the supercharger I have. Of the different sc manufacturers, mine looks visually like the ones on that site.

I haven't found any clear manufacturer's name on the thing or number. Maybe someone can ID it better.

John

Hi John,
I'm fairly sure thats not an Autorotor, unless they changed the design in the last few months. I have one of those, here are some pics of a 419. Externally all the Autorotors look the same, a box with a pulley sticking out and a triangular "out" manifold. Autorotors also have an exposed intake where you can see the concave/convex rotors meshing, which is a different design from a Paxton.

Excellent project, keep up the updates! I'm interested in your pulley setup, mine is on the last details now...You definately want to install a boost gauge of some kind so you can monitor it, especially as you dont know the SC output. I did mine with one MAP for the ECU and another MAP for the gauge but its also possible to have one MAP passing the signal to your MS ECU and have the ECU drive in turn drive an output channel to a digital gauge.http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1234431064.jpg
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1234431082.jpg
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1234431123.jpg
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1234431165.jpg

Here's a paxton, also not what you have:

http://www.paxtonauto.com/graphics/body_novi.jpg


And a roots/eaton, which is probably what you have:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...ine_engine.jpg

Can you see the rotors? Do they look like this:
Lysholm/Opcon:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...rew_rotors.jpg

Lile this (Roots)
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...n_pump.svg.png

Other parts
 

The SC looks more like the ones in Jesper's link (shown a few replies up on this thread.) Here is a picture of some of the other components for the SC setup. As you suggested John, I have a MAP sensor (the little black box roughly in the middle next to the distributor wires) I also have the boost gauge (slightly up and left of center.) I have the Electromotive HPX (lower left) for timing control along with the magnecore wires. You can also see the piping to/from the SC. On the upper right are the turbo valve covers that I also picked up at PP.

For the pulley system, I am using a serpentine belt. I had to replace my crank pulley for a later style pulley that has the inner section for the fan v-belt, and the outer section for a serpentine belt (5 ribs.) Since the crank pulley is too big for the 3.0 motor mount, I had to get a newer Carrera mount (which I picked up a week or so from the used items for sale forum here on PP.) I have an idler/tensioner for the belt (just to the left of the boost/vacuum gage). What I have to do is get a Sanden compressor (to replace my York) and find the appropriate A/C clutch with pulley for the serpentine belt.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1234630578.jpg

John,
You have a Whipple. It is the same SC that I have on my truck. My kit included two additional fuel injectors (for a V-8) and a box of electronics to control the wastegate. Try:
http://www.whipplesuperchargers.com/default.asp

Mark

Thanks for the info Mark. I couldn't find a manual on-line. Does it say anything about maintenance? Recommended oil, etc.?

Interesting looking at the Lysholm site. The flow maps that they publish for their 1200 through 3300 series are actually relatively inefficient compared to a modern turbo. I don't know how that will compare to the SOK. It does raise the issue of why a supercharger with its parasitic drive loss and potentially worse thermodynamic efficiency over a turbocharger.

There are a couple of threads comparing turbos to superchargers that you can search. There are good points on either side. The biggest advantage of the supercharger is the lack of turbo lag. Instant power. I hope to comment on this aspect once it's up and running! :D

In fact, I just read this thread where a new 930 user was asking whether the lag he felt was normal.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/911-930-turbo-super-charging-forum/457518-babysitting-86-930-a.html

I also ran on a site that looks at turbo vs superchargers:

http://imagineauto.wordpress.com/2008/02/24/to-turbo-or-supercharge-that-is-the-question/

On the other hand, I've read that the right combo of newer turbos and exhaust can decrease that significantly (although that means you have to do your share of mods.)

In my case, my car looked a lot faster than it drove with only 180 ponies. For it's day, it may have been fast, but not for today. Turbo and supercharger kits for the 3.0 are mighty scarce. As I looked for a BAE or other turbo kit, the supercharger kit practically fell on my hands and I jumped at it. Now it's time to put it on and enjoy it. (Of course, I had to deal with the broken head studs issues...)

John,
The folks at Whipple recommended synthetic engine oil and that was about it. There is no maintenance on the unit and mine has run for almost 100,000 miles with no problems.

Mark

OK, time to continue on...

Short block, pistons and cylinders along with the cam towers and heads went to JB Racing and came back like new.

Two broken headstuds removed
Deck height was adjusted at the case
Rods were refurbished and fitted with new bushings
ARP rod bolts installed
Crank cross-drilled and modified main bearings installed
Intermediate gear replaced along with new chains
All bearings replaced
Pump checked out OK
Crank in excellent shape
Heads refurbished with new springs, guides, etc.
An aluminum piece was welded to use a later motor console (required for the supercharging)


http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1255746147.jpg

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1255746186.jpg


http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1255746214.jpg


http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1255746241.jpg


http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1255746266.jpg


http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1255746293.jpg

Short block is back sealed and ready for further assembly!

Next items: Supertec headstuds and Ps & Cs

subscribe

Lots of progress to report. Unfortunately, looks like my computer power supply died. I'll see if I can post stuff over the holidays.

Getting back on some of the work... deck height was set and a new mount was welded to hold the 3.2 console rather than the 3.0 console.

All rebuilding was performed in an air conditioned room inside the house.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1262664528.jpg

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1262664701.jpg

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1262664718.jpg

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1262664848.jpg

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1262664958.jpg

Can wait to see how it all goes and when the beast starts and runs (subscribed) Good luck :-)

Thanks, here are more pics:

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1263442737.jpg

Plugged the air injection holes.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1263442818.jpg

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1263442842.jpg

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1263443015.jpg

More updates
 

Got the Carrera tensioner and fabricated the spacer to prevent collapse:

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1264393985.jpg

Also updated the tensioner idler arm with the supertec arms. Replaced idler sprockets- the old ones were worn.

Setting the cam timing was a pain. Tried to advance to 1.7 mm rather than 1.0 mm to get more bottom end performance (since supercharger would help fill cylinders at the top end). Then did the piston to valve clearance check and had interference. so I set it to 1.5 mm, then had interference on the right bank, then 1.4mm- almost, and had to settle for 1.3mm. This worked with better than minimum clearance.

To help with the clearance check, I put a piece of tape and drew a line at the 0 degree angle to make it easy to count the turns on the rocker screw.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1264394616.jpg

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1264395017.jpg

Now installing the intake:

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1264395098.jpg

Looked at the dirty tranny and cleaned it up:

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1264395483.jpg

After first cleaning pass. Looks even better now.
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1264395522.jpg

Ordered and received the Clewett crank pulley and powder coated the fan. Don't have pics now, but will get them in soon.

Meanwhile, I have been stuck with a low fuel flow issue. I've concluded it's OK for the stock 911SC but not for the supercharged version.
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/911-930-turbo-super-charging-forum/521759-flow-test-not-getting-enough-fuel.html

Lookin good. Here's where I've arrived...taking a breather for now...

Smaller pulley, bigger charger, call it done...for now...SmileWavy

All figures are at the wheels, no drivetrain corrections. 30degC ambient temp, IATs maxed at ~40degC with the coolers going.

<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/c1kaihGTmvw&hl=en_US&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/c1kaihGTmvw&hl=en_US&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1265715528.jpg

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1265715556.jpg

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1265715583.jpg

I think it needs a better exhaust and heads to get much more.

Excellent John, I have been following your work and glad to see this recovery after your previous setback. I am almost done but haven't had the time to finish it off, doing the small details. Since I tested fuel flow and found it to be low, I just got an LM2 to put it all together and get some data. I was looking at your numbers from the other post and there is good data there. Thanks for posting.

Good work sir - subscribing to follow your progress

More pics. I have been behind on my pics but trips, and moving have kept me from posting.

Here is a part to mount the electromotive. It's a convertible so no need for the rear window defogger. Also, don't need the heater in Miami so all of that is being disconnected.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1268098756.jpg

Without the console sporting the Clewett pulley and the powder-coated fan.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1268099253.jpg

Two shots ready to mount.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1268099285.jpg

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1268099306.jpg

Engine is already mounted in the car and partly connected. I'll have to cut the deck lid but I already knew that...

Also removed the AC condenser. AC will be a later project.

Very sleek set up Dr J, by curiosity did you stay with the same diameter crank pulley as OEM or increase slightly?

Also, I like the belt tensioner set up, do you mind sharing where you sourced it from,...:)

Great project very timely and meticulously accomplished

what compression are your pistons? are they 9.3:1? I cant tell from the pics. Nice work so far!

For the pulley, I stayed with the same diameter to the alternator/fan. The turbo pulley was too large so I kept the diameter same as stock for the 79. The pulley on the supercharger is rather large, so I can get a smaller one in the future to increase boost.

The belt tensioner was sold together with the supercharger system by the person who had it. I can measure the mounting plate and give dimensions or get a picture from which you can get them. The tensioner itself is from a 1996 Chevy Astro Van. The AC compressor is a Sanden rotary which actually has 7 rather than 6 grooves. It is available through Summit Racing. The crank pulley dimensions were selected by me and fabricated by Clewett Engineering

The piston were stock, but with modifications to the case to get the deck height even and the use of 1mm copper shims, ccing the head resulted in an 8:1 ratio.

Thanks John, very useful info as I too in the middle of modifying my supercharger. I also have the Clewett Eng. crank pulley I went to 5.5" on the Sc and remained OEM to the alternator fan. I have a 3.25" pulley on my SC which I hope will give me an additional pound or 2 of boost.

I would be very appreciative if you could take a few picture of your serpentine setup with tensioner and idler.


Again great built, .. awesome project.

Here is a view of the tensioner so you can see where I mounted it in the cross mount.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1268265176.jpg

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1268265274.jpg

To space it away from the cross mount I used nuts of larger diameter as the bolts. I found that washers can have different thicknesses to the nuts give a more consistent spacing. If you need an additional washer or so, you can check that they are the same thickness.

Nice, I was planning on doing a similar install before I crashed my car. I'll be jumping back into it once I pull the engine, which may be this weekend.

These sites show my plan...
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/porsche-911-technical-forum/523392-plan-inexpensive-300-hp-sc-motor.html
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/911-930-turbo-super-charging-forum/523382-plan-inexpensive-300-hp-sc-motor.html

I wouldn't mind your advice. It looks like you are getting good results.

-P

I also have the following in PDF form if you want them:

SoK brochure on both SC kits
SoK installation instructions for the Paxton kit
SoK installation instructions for the Auto-Rotor kit
SoK 3.2 Low-Boost Whipplecharger Install instructions
TPC racing 993/964 Supercharger installation instructions.

Send me a PM or email if you want them.

-P

Status report:

It started! Electromotive worked fine, seems that preliminary timing and mixture were OK. Tachometer worked fine on the electromotive. Working on breaking it in.

Congratulations! Whoohooo!

AWESOME, you've got to post some videos then its on the road ;-)

any updates???

Yes!

Lots of updates. It's running and has some 2,000 miles. I'm in the middle of a conference so I can't post details and pics now, but will try to do so next week. Also will provide some of the difficulties and lessons learned, for posterity.

Updates
 

Ok, here is a bit of a summary since the last posts:

Mounted engine back and connected everything without the supercharger.
Performed appropriate break-in in N/A mode.
Installed LM2 A/F system (problems with getting a tach signal- fixed much later)
Found A/F ratio too lean for supercharger use (I wanted enough fuel from the FD without using the cold-start injector on boost)
Changed Fuel distributor to a Euro 81/82 with its WUR. Now I have steel fuel lines.
Connected supercharger.
Belt kept coming off. I found that the tensioner was too close to vertical. I drilled a new hole for the locator pin and tilted it more horizontal.
It was very difficult to align the belt once the engine was in the car, since none of the three pulleys originally came with the car. I ended up getting
a Gates laser alignment tool to get it where it was good enough.


http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1307845645.jpg

Notice how the tensioner is more horizontal than before. Also, the hump hose at the supercharger has since been replaced. There is still some misalignment between the supercharger and the crank pulley which causes a resonance with the tensioner moving forward/aft, at very low rpms but it is felt when you turn the car off and it goes through this range. Also, I had to remove the AC condenser (which was non-functioning anyway) and cut the deck lid.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1307845822.jpg

After everything was running, I found that I had 2psi! What??

Since I didn’t know the capacity of the supercharger, it seems I should have designed the crank pulley to be larger. However, even this little boost already made a noticeable difference.

No problem, based on the boost I was getting, I back-calculated the capacity of the supercharger to be 1.6L then calculated the size of a new pulley, which I obtained from Whipple. Now I’m running 6-7 psi which based on my research on this site and others seems to be the maximum safe value without using an intercooler. There is still plenty of capacity left in the supercharger for future “upgrade” in boost.

The AF ratios was fixed by a used DWUR, which was a whole other learning curve, but I have enough fuel.

Now that I have some boost, my supercharger outlet pipes to the air intake started disconnecting from the rubber elbow/connector. After much research, I decided to have a bead welded to the stainless pipes. These held but the hump connector at the outlet of the supercharger allowed the whole intake to the engine to move, which caused it to pop off from the throttle body. Removed the hump connector and put a straight piece of silicone and everything is holding now.

On tuning, I figured out how to get a tach signal to record AF tables. I should mention that the tach signal from the HPX could not power the car tachometer AND the LM2 and DWUR. I used a transistor as emitter-follower to isolate the tachometer from the other electronics and now everything is playing together nicely.

I also added the MAP sensor and wired it in. The LM2 is recording tach, AF, ignition advance from the HPX, and manifold pressure. The LM2 was installed between the seats, but those details may be best for another thread.

Current state: It seems most bugs have been worked out. The car is driveable. The difference is very significant. Boost is available almost right away. I can be driving at speed, hit it and feel the front start coming up (Oh no, not a suspension upgrade!) The sound is not bad at all. In fact, I like it. When on the expressway, just opening up the throttle a bit and I can hear it engage.

If I want to operate in NA mode, all I have to do is remove the belt and it operates as such. The difference is easy to see.

Now to the never-ending job of tuning:

Had cold start problems (it would take 3 tries to start) and am going through that learning curve. I found that I just need to richen the warm-up cycle of the DWUR. This is now working but needs to be refined for different cold-start temperatures.

Warm AF tuning: this is still in progress. Changes to the intake, and problems with a slipping belt, and a loose ground on the LM2 has caused me to do this several times. Right now it is too rich under boost and I can feel it bogging down. It’s easy to generate a new table with the LM2 and adjust, but I’m considering dyno tuning.

Ignition timing is working fine. I have the MAP sensor on the HPX for vacuum advance. The result is 13 degrees advance at idle, about 28 degrees with no boost at higher RPM, which retards to 18-20 deg at boost.