Anyone running an Electromotive HPV-1?

[GaryR]

It was in a running car with the engine i'm using but I want to double check the timing curve the guy had set in with what others may be running. My motor may be a bit of a sticky point as it is a dual plugged 3.2SS, S cams, with 46mm PMO's on it. I'll put this out on the tech forum also, thanks for any input.

INIT setting (idle to 1000 RPM)
3000 setting (3000 RPM advance)
8000 setting (differential between 3000 setting and 8000 setting)

The rev limiter I will set to 7000 for now.

[cstreit]

Gary,

I've got an similar engine, 3.3L. I'll post my settings after I get back from the shop....

[Shoepop]

I run a 12:1 2.5 SS twin plug on 91 pump gas. Initial 10, 18 @ 3000, -2 @ 8000.

[GaryR]

Originally Posted by Shoepop

I run a 12:1 2.5 SS twin plug on 91 pump gas. Initial 10, 18 @ 3000, -2 @ 8000.

This is 10.5:1 AFAIK. Both coil packs are current set at:

Init - 5
3000 - 12 (equates to 17?)
8000 - 8 (which would equate to 25deg ?)
RevLim - I set it at 7000 for now, was set just past the 8000 tic.

Should the secondary 3 coil packs (for exhaust side plugs) be set the same as the intake port side (they currently are)? Manual says yes or no..

[cstreit]

Some say the hot setup is to have the exhaust side set just a hair later than the intake side... However same is fine. My setup is close to Shoepop IIRC.

[GaryR]

So you guys run 10, 28, and 26 at 8K. Is that for fear of detonation in your high comp. engines? Running race gas or pump 93?

[mike the snake]

I have the XDi which is basically the same system on my twin plug 3.5, 12.9 to 1 compression with GE80 cams.

The shop set my timing at 8, 22, and -2 I believe. 8 at idle, 3000 knob set at 22 for total 30 degrees at 3000rpm, then -2 degrees on the 8000 knob.

I Am curious though, what other similar engines run for timing.

[GaryR]

I'm confused with the wording in the manual, You start with static (mechanical) timing, then the Init PLUS the mechanical = the true INIT advance. Add true INIT to the 3000 setting = the true 3000 advance, then add that to the 8000 setting for the final advance at 8000?

"The advance from cranking to 400 RPM equals the mechanical advance set by the location of the sensor and trigger wheel. At 400 RPM control jumps to the amount set on the INIT knob. The advance remains at Initial to 1000 RPM where it begins to climb in a linear fashion an additional amount as set on the 3000 knob. At 3000 RPM, the advance curve changes slope and advances (or retards) up or down a further amount as selected on the 8000 knob. Above 8000 RPM, the advance does not change."

[Shoepop]

Originally Posted by GaryR

This is 10.5:1 AFAIK. Both coil packs are current set at:

Init - 5
3000 - 12
8000 - 8 (which would equate to 20deg I believe)
RevLim - I set it at 7000 for now, was set just past the 8000 tic.

Should the secondary 3 coil packs (for exhaust side plugs) be set the same as the intake port side (they currently are)? Manual says yes or no..

Gary, you set initial, in your case 5 then at 3000-8000 your set at 12 so you have a TOTAL advance up to 8000 of 17 which is way to LOW. The setting for 8000 is a retard setting.

[GaryR]

Originally Posted by Shoepop

Gary, you set initial, in your case 5 then at 3000-8000 your set at 12 so you have a TOTAL advance up to 8000 of 17 which is way to LOW. The setting for 8000 is a retard setting.

Here's how I interpret my settings now, but this may change in 10 minutes.. ;-) The setting for 8000 is for retard and advance AFAIK.. goes from -7 to +10

Init - 5
3000 - 12 (equates to 17?)
8000 - 8 (which would equate to 25deg ?)

[Shoepop]

[QUOTE=GaryR;4817147]Here's how I interpret my settings now, but this may change in 10 minutes.. ;-) The setting for 8000 is for retard and advance AFAIK.. goes from -7 to +10

Init - 5
3000 - 12 (equates to 17?)
8000 - 8 (which would equate to 25deg ?)

[/QUOTE

Gary I believe where you are getting confused is the 8000 knob is only for adding or subtracting @ 8000+ ONLY.

[Shoepop]

[QUOTE=GaryR;4817159]

Originally Posted by Shoepop

I do get confused, no doubt about it, but from the manual - "At 3000 RPM, the advance curve changes slope and advances (or retards) up or down a further amount as selected on the 8000 knob."

Picking a positive number will advance more, a negative will retard... no?

\
No, what ever you set the 3000 knob to say 18 it will advance from the initial setting let's say you cranked in 10 to a total of 28 until 8000 and it will stay @ 28 total unless you set the 8000 knob to add or subtract timing. The ONLY function of the 8000 dial is to + or - from the TOTAL of the TWO, initial and 3000 knobs above 8. A good explainer I'm not, someone else will step in and get you on track.

[GaryR]

Ok, I believe we are now saying the same thing in different ways.. My timing at up to 1000 RPM's is 5 degrees BTDC. Because my 3000 setting is 12 timing will increase linearly to 17 degrees until I hit 3000 RPMs. Now if my 8000 setting was 0, it would STAY at 17 degrees regardless of RPM increase. It's not 0, it's 8(+) so my timing will increase linearly from 17 degrees to 25 degrees from 3000 to 8000 RPMs. Maybe this graph will help clarify for all.. or not.

[Shoepop]

Originally Posted by GaryR

Ok, I believe we are now saying the same thing in different ways.. My timing at up to 1000 RPM's is 5 degrees BTDC. Because my 3000 setting is 12 timing will increase linearly to 17 degrees until I hit 3000 RPMs. Now if my 8000 setting was 0, it would STAY at 17 degrees regardless of RPM increase. It's not 0, it's 8(+) so my timing will increase linearly from 17 degrees to 25 degrees from 3000 to 8000 RPMs. Maybe this graph will help clarify for all.. or not.

Correct, both on same page now.

[GaryR]

Brought this back up as I am FINALLY going to be starting this engine (if stars align) Saturday AM with the help of a good friend that is a lot more methodical than I. I just read/reread the HPV-1 manual and I believe i'm pretty clear, but reading a couple responses above it seems others are confused about the "8000" potentiometer.
From the manual - "At 8000 rpm you have the ability to add up to 10 degrees or subtract up to 7 degrees of timing from the
advance you have selected at 3000 rpm. This value is added or subtracted in a linear fashion from 3000 rpm
to its full amount at 8000 rpm, so if you would select -6 degrees, it would subtract 3 degrees (half the total
timing change) from your timing curve at 5500 rpm (half the RPM span.) If you had selected +10 degrees, it
would add 5 degrees of timing at 5500 rpm."

Clearly the setting of the "8000" effect timing linearly from 3000 RPMs to 8000 RPM, not after hitting 8000 as stated above ("the 8000 knob is only for adding or subtracting @ 8000+ ONLY"). If you guys are setting the 8000 knob to a negative number the curve will simply drop from the 3000 setting linearly by that amount between 3000 and 8000 RPMs. Just as an example, if at 3000 I have 20 degrees of advance and I set the 8000 pot to +10, then for every 1000 RPMs over that I will increase advance by 2 degrees, i.e 22 at 4000, 24 at 5000, 26 at 6000, 28 at 7000, and finally 30 at 8000.

Now from what Shoepop has his set at - "Initial 10, 18 @ 3000, -2 @ 8000", you get 10 degrees at 400-1000 RPMs, 17 at 2000 RPMs, 28 at 3000 RPMs, 27 at 5500 and 26 at 8000. After all this i'm still not sure what to set mine at but I *think* i'm pretty clear on what everything does and why..

[Walt Fricke]

I've been running an HPV-1 (actually from the defunct Pacific Motorsports, but identical except perhaps for the instruction manual) on my 2.7 race motor since 1995 or so, using these settings:

timing static = 0/0 degrees (i.e., I set the timing wheel so it has no advance or retard). Then I set the dials as follows (second figure is the cumulative advance).
1000rpm = +12/12 total
3000 = +14/26 total
8000 = +2/28 total

I don't know if this linear connecting of the dots would continue on beyond the 8,000 rpm rev limit, but that ought not to matter (especially if you go almost all in at 3,000).

Gary's words are right, but his graph is wrong (or at least does not represent his words)- the graph should show 17 degrees at 3,000 rpm, and 25 degrees at 8,000 rpm.

You can dial in some static (toothed wheel) initial timing if you want, but I could see no point to doing that as the dials give you all you could want, are easy to adjust, setting the wheel at 0 is the simplest, most foolproof setting, etc.

Walt Fricke

[GaryR]

Thank you Walt, the graph is from Electromotive's manual, my numbers were just an arbitrary example. You also reminded me that I have to see where the PO set the wheel initially!

[GaryR]

Just to close this up with good news, the car started right up on my initial dial settings of 10, 14, and +2. The degree wheel was set at 0 static when installed by the PO. Using a DVOM, we quickly found out that the potentiometers and their printed gauge are close but not to be trusted accurate. I ended up off a couple degrees on the INIT and 3000 pots to get the actual advance I wanted. I will say that even though this is old technology and relatively primitive, the curve moves very linearly with RPM increase and does exactly what it should. Thanks for all the help!

[Shoepop]

Great to hear you got it Gary.

[MBruns]

A word of caution, be sure to check it with a timing light to confirm what you have, do not assume by adding up the total of the dials. also check the timing on all three coil packs ( they will show up on the other 120 degree marks on the pulley) we have seen over the years testing these systems on our engines as well as many customers on the engine dyno that if the board is failing for example the # 2 coil timing will be much different than the other two, (we had a customer that lost rod bearings back to back on cyls 2/5 because that coil had almost 15 deg. more timing than the 1/4 coil) he was ready to loose another until we shot the timing on the dyno. The other common problem with those systems is timing drift, from 5k up the timing will slowly increase or decrease depending where you have the 8k dial, most are set on '0' But what you can find watching the timing thru a full pull is that even set on '0' most will retard a few to alot and that is lost power, You cannot detect the drift by a quick rev and a timing light,it needs to be on a dyno , It can/should be done to confirm, alot of them needed some + input added to the 8k dial to get the timing desired, example if you wanted a total of 30 deg at full RPM and while shooting a full pull it backs up to 25 total you add +5 to the 8k dial and re shoot timing. I hope this helps someone out. Mike Bruns JBRacing.com