Valve Guide Removal

[Daviboy]

Hi guys got my shipment yesterday with all new valves, guides,seals and springs. I initially thought I could get away with using the valve guides but the amount of lateral play when I slid the new valves in was intolerable. So question is whats the best way of removing the old guides? I have read the section in Waynes book on this but just wondered if there is an alternative method.

[Daviboy]

No one have an alternate method?

[rvanderpyl]

Don't remember Waynes method, but the two I know of are:

1. Drill guides with a drill just a tiny bit small than the OD, pick the remaining out.

2. Take a bar sized to a slip fit of the inside of the guide, with a step milled in as a stop, place in freezer, Heat the heads with a torch, place bar into guide and knock out. This is the method we used to use on light aircraft engines. In a production shop we had a fixture that held all the cylinders of a row of torches, so they could all be heated at once, then they were rotated and there was a set of drivers in the freezer so you could do them all at once. The guy who did this job could replace a full set of 6 in about an hour, including removing, sizing and driving in, reaming and sizing the bores.

[gearheadgreg]

They make stepped drill bits to center on the hole in the guide, taking out most of the material to weaken it and allow it to be driven out much easier. Aircooled VW people have been using them forever.

[Henry Schmidt]

We tap the seal end of the guide with a 10mm x 1.50 tap and screw a 10mm bolt in about 15 mm deep.
The from the opposite end (seat side) you push on the bolt with a punch or a pilot tool attached to an air hammer.
No heat is required.

[Hebster52]

Thanks Henry! That's a great idea!
Been familiar with the stepped drill from the VW aircooled scene but this appears even easier. Dont have to worry that the drill brakes etc...

[porterdog]

Originally Posted by Hebster52

That's a great idea!

Wow, I'll say. Thanks for sharing.

[Henry Schmidt]

A picture's worth a 1000 words.

[nocarrier]

Is there a tool to set the correct depth when installing a new guide?

Also, what is the right amount of interference for the guide and the head? Shouldn't that be measured and the guides turned to fit the heads?

[boyt911sc]

Originally Posted by Henry Schmidt

A picture's worth a 1000 words.

Henry,

That's supper nice of you to provide pictures and explanation for the valve guide removal. How about installation techniques and procedures for the valve guides? Pictures obviously would help us follow or understand your procedure. Thanks.

Tony

[PrimeMvr]

+1 on Henry's method. Used it yesterday and it worked slick! Thanks for sharing your expertise.

Steve

[totle]

Great writeup. Thanks Henry

Please also post installation pictures

[crummasel]

Henry, i am doing it the same way, but pushing the guides in opposite direction as the original repair manual recommends. Maybe just a detail but i would fear dirt or maybe widened lower ends of guides could additionally stress the holes.
But also as to my experience a good methode.
Greets Robert

[Henry Schmidt]

Originally Posted by crummasel

Henry, i am doing it the same way, but pushing the guides in opposite direction as the original repair manual recommends. Maybe just a detail but i would fear dirt or maybe widened lower ends of guides could additionally stress the holes.
But also as to my experience a good methode.
Greets Robert

Pushing the guide from the spring side to the seat side is a huge mistake.
If the guides have ever been replaced there is a good chance (90%) that the guide has a lip that helps the installer to install guides consistently.
If the pull that lip through the head you run the chance of splitting the guide boss on the inside of the port.

[crummasel]

Correct, Henry,

but among a lot of motorheads i have done (here in old europe) i have never seen this case and to make sure i am doing measurements before.
In such a case i would for sure do it reversely like you, but as said, it usually did not come up so far.
Replacement guides you get over here (unless you make your own) have a plain, straight outer diameter without any lip.

Greets,
Robert

[Henry Schmidt]

Originally Posted by crummasel

Correct, Henry,

but among a lot of motorheads i have done (here in old europe) i have never seen this case and to make sure i am doing measurements before.
In such a case i would for sure do it reversely like you, but as said, it usually did not come up so far.
Replacement guides you get over here (unless you make your own) have a plain, straight outer diameter without any lip.

Greets,
Robert

Robert, on your heads you can do as you please. It is my goal by posting on these threads to assist the DIY builders to succeed on their project. That is why I will warn all those doing your own heads to follow my suggestion or use a core drill or whatever method you choose just don't push the guide towards the seat side, period!!!!! It is way to risky.

[crummasel]

Henry,
if the cracks shown on your photo were caused by pulling the guide towards the spring side it would prove what i said. But more likely it shows a cracked lower guide bore area caused by an oversized seizing guide being pushed in from the spring side (maybe also with wrong methods), so not an example for a removal of a guide towards the seat side.
However, i fully agreed to your methode, just a small comment to it (by the way with the same intention as yours to make DIY - builders more successful) so no reason to shout. ;-)
I will not comment any more, seems we do not have as much experience on Porsches in Germany as you have in CA. ;-)

[Henry Schmidt]

Originally Posted by crummasel

Henry,
if the cracks shown on your photo were caused by pulling the guide towards the spring side it would prove what i said. But more likely it shows a cracked lower guide bore area caused by an oversized seizing guide being pushed in from the spring side (maybe also with wrong methods), so not an example for a removal of a guide towards the seat side.
However, i fully agreed to your methode, just a small comment to it (by the way with the same intention as yours to make DIY - builders more successful) so no reason to shout. ;-)
I will not comment any more, seems we do not have as much experience on Porsches in Germany as you have in CA. ;-)

The cracks were caused by pushing the old guide through the head (using a core drill), towards the seat side. All six heads suffered the same damage.
They were sent to me to repair after the owner kludged them up. We suggested he just replace the heads.
As for your "I'm German so I must know" comment: I would think you don't have to be a Hawaiian to open a coconut, any monkey can do it.

[304065]

Originally Posted by crummasel

I will not comment any more, seems we do not have as much experience on Porsches in Germany as you have in CA. ;-)

Half of all aircooled Porsches EVER sold went to California.

Half of those went to Southern California.

I think it highly likely that there are a few of Henry Schmidt's engines in Europe given the Euro exchange-- lots of great California cars are making their way back to Germany.

[88911coupe]

This was one aspect of my rebuild I was not even going to try myself. I just was too nervous to mess something up badly. This is where someone like Henry is extremely valuable. I actually had all this work done by Competition Engineering and it really was not too expensive in the whole scheme of things.