Need some help

[Daviboy]

Guys,
Been hectic last few days not had a chance to even think about the P-car. However late afternoon decided to give her a turn, full battery 13.75v primed cylinders by lifting plenum and got some fule in the cylinders. Good news is there were a few chuffs and almost started. I now think that the fuel I have in the tank is no good (been in there 6 months now) so tomorrow going to get 5 litres of fresh 95 ron and try her again. I now believe this is part of the issue so battery is back on charge for the start I know I am going to get. BTW really did not think that fuel lost so much combustibility over that length of time, feel free to educate me on this.

[snbush67]

Davy,

Have you checked your injectors for spray? It could be from sitting they may need to be cleaned.

Shane

[Daviboy]

Shane,
All the injectors are brand new did not want to take the chance with the old ones. I pulled one the other day and lifted the plenum plate and getting a nice even spray pattern so no issues there. Just put 10 litres oif clean new fuel in the tank, but wife is still in bed so dont want to fire her up just now. Watch this space hope to have some good news later.

[Daviboy]

Major depression is setting in, tried the car again fully charged battery and new fuel still NOTHING. I am really at a loss now. The last thing I can think is that the NGK B8E-S plugs I installed are not hot enough. I could not get OEM plugs WR3CC or WR3CP as specified in Waynes book here in Cape Town.

[snbush67]

Davy,

It should start and run with those plugs fine. I would run a hotter plug though. I have a slightly used set of NGK BPR5ES that I used when tuning my car I can send you, PM me your address if you want them.

You are getting good spark, so that leaves air and fuel. You either have a massive air leak, your engine timing is way off or possibly too much fuel.

You could pull your plugs after trying to start again and see if they are wet.

Perhaps double check all the rubber boots and CIS hoses. Maybe a small spray of starting fluid in the intake will get the ball rolling.

Shane

[Flat6pac]

Check your timing on Z1 #1 have the rotor approaching the mark on the distributor edge. One notch of the distributor is 60 degrees in the total firing order. You might back it clockwise 1 tooth, then your advance will be available. Make sure your plug wire starts with #1 being the first connection to the left of the dist. clip.
Youre close, just have to figure it out....
Bruce

[Daviboy]

Bruce,
Ok will give that a try cant do any harm, rechecked all plugs and wires again. Going to talk to a good mechanic tomorrow he was on leave and I could not get hold of him last week.
Shane the plugs are getting wet, dont think I have air leaks as I checked all the entire CIS when it was off the engine, new airbox and all hoses are good. So frustrated it is a beautiful Sunday here such a nice day for a drive....

[snbush67]

We are left with to much fuel, or ignition problem. Sounds like an ignition problem? Have you double checked your plug wires?

To add to Bruce's advice please double check the wires. 1-6-2-4-3-5 Counter-Clock-Wise (CCW).

If you look at it #1 is right over the notch, and then #6, then #2, #4 and then #3 is over the Vacuum Pod, then #5.
(as you are looking at the distributor from the rear of the car).




Shane

[Flat6pac]

SNbush, the last 2 sentences dont look right for good information. #1 is to the left of the clip on the fan side of the dist. Firing order on an SC is CCW, youre going to the right is confusing the situation....
Bruce

[snbush67]

Bruce,

Thanks, I changed my post. Does it read correctly now?

Shane

[Flat6pac]

Yes, but your engine is too clean, looks like the dinner table..My little brother always says "if it has oil in it, there is oil on it"
Bruce

[lindy 911]

It sure seems like too much fuel or ignition timing. You might pull the plugs and fuel pump relay and spin the motor with the starter for about 15 seconds or so twice to pump and dry the cylinders. Put the plugs and relay back in and try again.

Lindy

[Daviboy]

Bruce/Lindy,
Worst kind of news today nut I guess at least I know now what the issue is. Got a compression tester today and did #1 & 4 both returned no compression whatsoever. So the engine is back on the stand, I now can remove a complete engine in 1 hr 45 minutes some kind of record huh!! Anyway tomorrow I will tear into it again and try to find out why I am getting no compression. I cannot understand this as I had the heads rebuilt, all new valves, checked piston to valve clearance etc etc. One thing I did notice when taking off the headers was some fuel in each so think I also was getting too much fuel as well. Will report my findings as I go....

[Flat6pac]

Before you rip it apart, look for the cams to be where theyre suposed to be, redial them in to be sure youre on the money. Sounds like you did something wrong on the timing. What about the rest of the cylinders? compression?
Bruce

[Daviboy]

Bruce,
That will be the first order of the day but I am sure the timing was bang on I turned the crank 8 times each bank after doing the overlap. Time will tell....

[Daviboy]

Checked the timing on both banks and it was bang on 1.4mm so no issue there. Got both sets of heads off and discovered that the valves are not properly seating not by much maybe 1/8" but thats enough to not allow compression to build.
I had the valve seats reground and new valves installed and when I got the heads back all the valves were seated. However I believe that with the cams in and the valve adjustment done there is enough force to hold the valves off the seats, looks like the valves were not ground to spec length and I never checked that I just assumed the shop had done it.
I need to get the heads apart and check the valve lengths and also how many shims are under each.
At least now I understand why there was no compression, this is not something that could be seen when the heads and cam towers are bolted together. And it explains why there was so much fuel in the headers, it was running straight down and out througn the exhaust valve.

[Flat6pac]

I dont see how the valves dont seat if the guides are honed to spec and springs set to spec height.
Bruce

[Daviboy]

Well it seems that the shop who did the original work on the heads stuffed up. The grind they did on the seats was so poor that only 3 out of the 12 valves were seating properly (infact some seats were needing replaced and they never bothered). The heads are now at a reputable engineering shop who only work on Porsche that includes Porsche South Africa repair work. So early next week I will get the heads back done right and can start re-assembling again.

[snbush67]

I'm glad you found the problem. On my rebuild I was able to check that the valves were seating properly by measuring vacuum with a guage to the exhaust and intake ports just prior to installation. I think I was using 20lbs. I had two valves that were not seating and they were only pulling 15lbs of vacuum. I was able to lap them in wth lapping compound and elbow grease.

Was your spring height OK?

[Daviboy]

Yes spring height was ok I took all the valves out to check and measure came out at 34.5mm. I thought about lapping them in but you know I thought it better to get a professional job done as this to me is one of the most important areas of the rebuild and I want longevity plus dont have the facilites to vacumm check the heads.