Update --

the short block is buttoned up...

One concern... the threebond was really set up by the time I got the case halves torqued together. Think this will be ok?

Here are some pics...

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1293235834.jpg

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1293237872.jpg

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1293235778.jpg

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1293235797.jpg

Update --

Supertec Studs in...
Pistons in Cylinders...

Installed #1. Checked Deck Height. 1.0 mm on edge without head. Performed Competition Engineering Flux Core measurement with Head installed since they are not flat pistons.. Flux Core measured little less than 1.5 mm.

All pistons installed. Wow.. that Stomski Racing Wrist Pin tool is very awesome! Used Threebond 1211 at the Cylinder/Case. Heads installed. Cam Towers installed.

I did not dry run the JE 9:5.1 / GT2-108 Cam for clearance because Camgrinder assured me I would have no issues. I am hoping he is right. If not, all Ill need to to is clean off the Threebond from the cam towers...

Here are some pics...

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1294537399.jpg

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1294537422.jpg

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1294537445.jpg

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1294537473.jpg

In regards to not checking the piston/valve clearance...did you have any machine work done to your heads, crankshaft, rods, etc? I think the machining of these items could potentially put your pistons and valves closer (from what I'm reading in Wayne's book).

Purdy! Looking great!

They are CNC'd machined large port heads, racing springs... but nothing out of the ordinary that would impact clearances. No work other than polish on the crank and rods were in spec so no work on them.

I am hoping that with the almost 1.5 mm of piston to head clearance (using the flux core method) and the pretty deep pockets of the JE's... Ill be fine. Intake lift is .485 and exhaust lift is .470. Its not that I wont check... I fully intend to check it... its just that I didnt check it dry (without threebond) which would create a minor inconvenience if I need larger Shims...

Thanks!!

Brad,

Great build, it is coming along nicely.

Now is the time to double check and measure the combustion chamber volume. I did not measure mine after assemby, but wish I had. You can rotate the engine on the stand so that you can put liquid into the cylinder to measure the volume, a lttle might get by the rings but probaly not.

You will have plenty of clearance with those pistons, what size copper base gaskets did you end up using? I used .25mm.

Shane

I used the standard .25 mm.

Thanks Shane. I had planned on doing that. Ill have to read up on the procedure. Is it filled with the piston all the up or all the way down?

Any Cylinder Compression Stroke: Piston at TDC, Valves closed. ( you may have to back your rockers off if you already have them installed and adjusted.

For reference:

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/911-engine-rebuilding-forum/519764-step-step-procedure-how-cc-your-head-volume.html

Thanks Shane.

Brad,

First of all, your build is looking great. I hope that once it's running, that your sense of satisfaction will be so great that you won't feel so bad about the water.

Second, on your post above, I know it's a moot point now as you're well on your way, but could Dougherty have selected a different cam grind for the new Mahles that would have been competitive in power and torque? Or was the GT2-108 the only way to get there, so you were forced to match the piston to the cam?

I'm not sure how I missed your thread, but good luck. Keep up the good work!

I spoke to John at length and to get the max low-mid range torque (3k-6k rpms) while taking advantage of the ITB's and large port heads he recommended the GT2-108 cams. he said it was between a DC 40 and DC 20 but closer to the DC40. On the Jerry Woods side, Its has a profile similar to a GE 60.

He had two issues with Mahle pistons... 1. He preferred a higher compression ratio than 9:3.1... and 2. He wanted more lift than a stock CIS piston could handle.

I am by no means an expert.. and obviously Steve W and Henry probably could have recommended a different cam that could have worked with CIS pistons... But I wanted to choose a cam based on the end goal not based on limitations of the piston size/shape...

There was also a cost concern. Did I really want to pay 5k for a CIS piston (max m) that wasnt really designed for ITB's and then choose a cam that was limited by the piston. I spent half that on my replated 3.2 Mahle's/JE's (EBS), have the same dimensions across the board of the Max M Mahle 3.2SS piston/cylinder and I can choose a cam based on the total setup and not have piston based limitations. I also bump the static compression over the stock 3.0 CIS piston from 9:3.1 to 9:5.1 which helps.

In this case I deferred 100% to John based on ITB's, Large port Heads, Racing Springs, and goal of max torque from 3-6k RPM's.

Thanks for your comments. I hope it runs great! The porsche 911 engine is a work of art and is actually quite easy to work on when you get into it thanks to all the people on here who have been there before...

Did you ever get any response to this? I'm just doing research for a future rebuild right now. But when I read this in Wayne's book, it was one of my concerns.

No I did not.

One difference is that I used Threebond as per Henry at Supertec. Wayne uses 574. Not sure if they act the same or not...

I'm interested in the answer as well.

Another related thing that I have recently found out is that Wayne recommends using the 574 on the bearing webs. However, according to one engine builder I spoke to, this is not the Porsche procedure. He believes that putting the 574 (or your choice of poison) there will add to the bearing clearance. Which I could imagine it's possible. Wayne actually goes as far as saying that putting the stuff on the webs will minimize or prevent case bowing, or something to that effect since I don't have the book with me now.

So, I guess this is another area the pros disagree on???

574, when cured, has a very strong shear. It will prevent the webs from moving under shear loads, that's why Henry and others recommend it's use on the webs. There is zero measurable difference in the ID of the mains. 574 is adding strength to the web joints by gluing the two case halves together.

Depending on the ambient temperature, Threebond gives you more time to get the cases together than 574. A dry run without sealant, in order to get a process established, helps.

^^^ With all due respect, I don't see how you can apply glue to surface and it be strong enough to "add strength to the webs", yet it has Zero dimensional impact on the bearings. Does that make sense to you??

Maybe the Threebond just normally gets squeezed out since it's supposed to stay fluid longer. But Brads question here is if it has hardened, do you need to worry?

When you apply it, I would guess you're easily looking at a 2 mil thickness or more, even if you tried to apply it light.

Brad, if you applied it to the webs, I think I would give a call to Henry and maybe Steve W to get their input. Added clearance on the webs is something I think you have to be careful with and could have an impact on your engine's longevity. If you only applied it to the outer area, and the threebond hardened, then the consequence might be simply an oil leak.

Now of course my disclaimer: Just my non-professional, never-rebuilt-a-flat six, but-trying-to-be-helpful opinion.

And with all due respect back; This IS Henry's method.

OK Lindy. I hope Henry can chime in.

On a separate subject, a few days ago I tried to send you a PM. Did you get it?

Thanks Lindy and sorry Brad for the HiJack.

In the end experts disagree. M Callas said no. Henry said yes. I went with Henry and used the 574 on the webs. Its probably overkill for a street motor but I like to listen to those who have gone before me... Hope I have No leaks!

On another thread a motorcycle guy said to let the threebond get a "skin" on it before pressing it together. So I suppose I am fine on that...