Another 3.0 Rebuild

[Daviboy]

One concern... the threebond was really set up by the time I got the case halves torqued together. Think this will be ok?

Brad as no one has answered you on this I will. I used the Threebond on my case halves and also noticed it had a skin by the time I mated the halves properly. Gave me many sleepless nights until I got the motor back in the car and fired up. I have 500 miles on my rebuild now and not a drop of oil leaking anywhere which is most unusual. Anyway not to worry about it.

[brads911sc]

Thanks!

Originally Posted by daviboy

one concern... The threebond was really set up by the time i got the case halves torqued together. Think this will be ok?

Brad as no one has answered you on this i will. I used the threebond on my case halves and also noticed it had a skin by the time i mated the halves properly. Gave me many sleepless nights until i got the motor back in the car and fired up. I have 500 miles on my rebuild now and not a drop of oil leaking anywhere which is most unusual. Anyway not to worry about it.

[brads911sc]

Update..

Checked my combustion chamber volume... Installed my Chain Housings. Will make a first pass at Timing today.

Spot on at 60-62CC on 1 and 4. So Im good... Should have close to 9:5.1 across the board. I just used the Medical 12 CC syringe and piece of Vacuum tubing and Rubbing Alcohol. Did it 3-4x. Got the same measurements each time.

[snbush67]

Brad,

Thanks for measuring, this seems to confirm that the J&E pistons are designed to achieve the advertised CR when using stock heads, cylinders and recommended deck heights. I used a burret and I came up with the same numbers on my dry build of #1.

Make sure you prime the engine by building up oil pressure before you start it. I did this by shutting down fuel delivery until I had pressure.

I also had success by running the cams in at 2000 rpm for 20 minutes. But this could be an issue with glazing the cylinders and then the rings wont seat, I think the key is using the crappiest dino oil you can find for cam break in, change with fresh crappy oil then engine break in with a lot of uphill, wrong gear, low to high rpm runs.

Shane

[brads911sc]

Update --

I installed the cam Sprockets - completed the case / Itermediate shaft measurments to be sure they are in alignment.

Installed the 1 and 4 Rocker arms.

Changed the Idler Arm gears and installed the idler arms.

Ready to set the timing.

Sending my oil cooler to Tom Butler for cleaning and pressure checking.

Also decided that I am going to try to repair the ripped holes on my Fiberglass Shroud. I am having trouble spending $525 on a shroud when its in great shape except for the ripped holes at the top of the fan housing...

Stay tuned

[brads911sc]

Ok. When I line up #1, dot facing up, dial indicator on. Dowel pin in... there is NO way the right side (#4) is also able to have the dot up. The dot needs to be down? this runs counter to waynes book where he says have both dots up. This could be cam I am using? am i correct? If I try to set the dot up on the right side cam, Im on the lobe.

[snbush67]

I telll everyone that is how I timed my cams (Same as you are explaining) and they look at me like I am crazy.

I timed my cams as you are saying one one dot up, the other dot down, until now I thought I might have just got a weird set of cams with the dot in the wrong spot, but I think you have confirmed I was right.

My engine runs incredible, no issues. You got it right, keep on going. Call John Dougherty if you got his number see if you can get him to explain it to you.

I think it is simply a matter of the cams being set at 3.2 mm overlap, but I am not sure. All I know is it threw me off for a day, but I ended up timing one up and one down as you say.

I actually timed it starting with both dots up and treid to adjust the valves, I thought I had bent some valves. Luckilly the cams aligned and loooking at the original cams it only made sense to time one up and one down.

Please let me know if you find out more.

Shane

[AlfonsoR]

I would be careful.

If you have one of the cams out of phase and you rotate the crank, you will probably get contact, valve to pistons.

Wait for advise from the pros. All the photos I see in Waynes book and in Bentley show matching timing marks. Maybe you just have an out of phase pulley like Shane seems to have.

[snbush67]

Alfonso,

Interesting point. The pulley is indexed on the crank shaft and is pinned in place. Is it possible to have a decent running engine with the crank pulley out of phase?

I cant really see how this is possible, like you say though it would be better to wait for some pros. Hopefully Camgrinder will respond.

Shane

[lindy 911]

The dots won't be facing up when you are measuring the valve lift. They will only be facing up when you set-up the initial cam timing. Once again it goes like this:

1. Set crank pulley to Z-1.
2. Set BOTH cams with dots (or key-ways) facing straight up.
3. Pin both sprockets and finger tighten the bolts.
4. Rotate the crank clock wise 360 degrees back to the Z-1 mark; this is when you are measuring the lift on #1.
5. If the measurement is not right on, rotate the cam until it is, without moving the crank.
6. Once #1 is correct, rotate the crank 360 degrees again and set #4 the same way as you did #1.

Keep this in mind: the valve lift is measured just as the intake valve is starting to open. As long as you have the rough timing set at Z-1 with both cams straight up you're good to go. All you're doing after that is fine tuning the cam timing.

READ THIS FIRST: When you set both cams with the dots up and the crank at Z-1 you have SET THE CAM TIMING. The measuring you do past this point is only to fine tune that timing.

If you did nothing more than set the dots on both cams straight up with the crank at Z-1 and called it a day, the motor will run. It won't run right, but it will run.

I only put the #1 rocker in and then set the cam. I don't put in the #4 rocker until I'm ready to set the 4-5-6 cam.

Hope this helps.

Lindy

[brads911sc]

I think I will remove the #4 rocker and try it this way.

The issue is really that regardless of the timing, dot up = "on the lobe" on the right side. There is no way that the rocker can be on the non-lobe part of the cam, and the dot up on the right side. Its physically impossible. When you look at the dot from the nut end, the lobe has started at the place of the dot. Its not full on the lobe (valve completely open), just starting the up tick on the lobe, but on the lobe nonetheless...

Originally Posted by lindy 911

I only put the #1 rocker in and then set the cam. I don't put in the #4 rocker until I'm ready to set the 4-5-6 cam.

[lindy 911]

When you say "on the lobe" is it just starting up the ramp or is it fully open?

[brads911sc]

Just starting up the ramp... But not in the full "rest/non-lobe" position that is on the left side. When I put the dot down, it is at full rest and in the same position as the left side. Very interesting. Will have to take a look at my old SC cams to see how its different.

Originally Posted by lindy 911

When you say "on the lobe" is it just starting up the ramp or is it fully open?

[lindy 911]

Don't worry, you're good. Remember that when#1 is at TDC on the power stroke #4 will be at TDC just starting the intake stroke. #4 will be just the opposite of #1.

Lindy

[brads911sc]

Great. Thanks.

Originally Posted by lindy 911

Don't worry, you're good. Remember that when#1 is at TDC on the power stroke #4 will be at TDC just starting the intake stroke. #4 will be just the opposite of #1.

Lindy

[camgrinder]

Nice description Lindy.
I always stamp the dot inline with the keyway.

[brads911sc]

Thanks John. Approeciate your time! Cant wait to start it up!

Shane, sounds like yours are an exception...

Originally Posted by camgrinder

Nice description Lindy.
I always stamp the dot inline with the keyway.

[snbush67]

Brad,

I was wrong, perhaps I am remembering the difficulty I had timing the cams and that I had tried several times unsuccessfully before finally getting it right.

After reading Lindys post I rememeber that the dots were in line with the keyways. Thanks Lindy.

I thought that I had ended up with the dots opposite, but I probably didnt. I do not plan on taking the chain housings off to check. But when I do I'll take a picture.

This is the exact reason I have the disclaimer in my signature. I am glad you got the right answer.

Shane

[AlfonsoR]

Great stuff!! I love this place!

[brads911sc]

Update --

Cams Timed. Range was 3.0-3.3 mm... I have 3.25 on Left and 3.20 on the right.

Thanks Walt Fricke, Bruce (Flat6Pac) and Lindy!