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-   -   964 3.3 Turbo EFI Conversion using Syvecs (Life Racing) Engine Management (http://forums.pelicanparts.com/911-engine-rebuilding-forum/626572-964-3-3-turbo-efi-conversion-using-syvecs-life-racing-engine-management.html)

Spenny_b 07-27-2018 11:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 304065 (Post 10121796)
.....I should have pressured you into Motec when I had the chance.

I think they all have their "issues" to be honest, I've heard great things about MoTec, but I've also heard many more not-so-good things. And some of their units are now looking distinctly old-hat.

Quote:

Originally Posted by 304065 (Post 10121796)
Your perseverance has taken on entirely new dimensions. The stiff upper is now forged titanium.

Believe me, I'm FAST losing the will to even finish this, genuinely wish I'd never started; just thoroughly bored by it now, finding any reason I can think of to NOT work on the car...just sick to death of it. Never, ever, again.

Quote:

Originally Posted by 304065 (Post 10121796)
You are a better man than I: anytime I run Parallels to emulate windows, my uncrashable Mac. . . crashes. I think it can SMELL MS code.

To be fair, most of the time Parallels is fine on my setup. Latest versions I've had (v11 then skipped to v13) have caused the fans on the Mac to run full-tilt; there's a known KB about it, which I've tried but makes little difference. I don't use it as my work tool (any more) so it's not something that's a 12hr/day annoyance. The only thing which is hard work compared to native Windoze is the adapter connections and bridging networks.

Spenny_b 07-27-2018 11:43 AM

So, another remote dial-in session this evning......surprise-sur-****ing-prise, it's still not playing ball. Time to check the wiring again (although I'm 99.9% sure it's fine), everything in SW is set for the new Lambda, and yet we're not getting it to heat correctly.

I'm off on vacation this weekend....hoping the car gets stolen in the meantime.

TurboKraft 07-27-2018 11:57 AM

:-(

Pat RUFBTR 07-28-2018 08:17 AM

Release(Leave) nothing Spencer, you are going to arrive there!!! If you give up I would be very disappointed and disgusted for all the efforts which you made, you have to go at the end of your project for you and for the forum, it is an obligation! ;)

brainz01 07-28-2018 12:15 PM

Hang in there! We’re all pulling for you.

Fingers crossed there’s an a-ha moment and it all comes together.

Best wishes!


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kevinbodman930 08-13-2018 08:02 AM

Hi Spenny just seeing if you made any progress?or if you found any lost treasure during your under water adventures?

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Spenny_b 08-14-2018 12:45 AM

Hi Guys,

As-of yesterday evening, yes, some progress thanks. Sam went on vacation just as I came back from mine, so in the meantime I've been speaking with Syvecs in order to ensure that the changes needed on the mainboard of the ECU are what's needed to switch it from working with a Bosch sensor to an NTK. After some slightly contradictory advice, we've now got that nailed....

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v2...d/IMG_4071.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v2...d/IMG_4072.jpg

After getting back from another days diving on Saturday (PADI Rescue Diver course, great fun), I popped a brave pill and took the car out for a 30mile drive mid-evening with a mate and his "trade plates". Hopefully nice and quiet should there be any difficulties.

All's well, no oil leaks. A few rattles to sort out, not least of which is a buzzing from the front fuel pump. I checked this a few weeks ago, nothing obvious I could find, but I'll have another look; perhaps it's the cover thats vibrating on a fitting. I'm also going to switch back over to the stock 964T engine mounts from the 964RS mounts currently in there. I'm hearing too many noises and feeling vibrations that I don't remember from when the car was stock - it could be nothing to worry about and simply a function of harder mounts. There also appears to be a rumbling from the alternator or cooling fan, dammit....could do without that, now that we're only a fortnight away from dyno-day, with 500miles to get driven before then.

Yesterday was the day the car had been re-booked in for it's annual MoT test, and I have to say, I wasn't at all confident that it would pass the emissions test after I had observed the readings in the Syvecs SCal "dashboard"...but then I have very limited knowledge of such things and how to interpret it, so....

Well, as predicted, it didn't pass all of the emissions test; it DID pass the hydrocarbons element, but not CO2. Oh, and I also have a sidelight bulb blown.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v2...d/IMG_4101.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v2...d/IMG_4100.jpg

So, coming back home, "kicking the cat" (metaphorically) and cueing up a few Plan B's (involving returning the ECU for a thorough diagnostics check and if required, a session up at Northampton Motorsport this weekend to really get to the bottom of it), I then touched-base with Sam in the evening. A quick video of what I was seeing on the Lam1 trace in SCal and he confirmed that it was absolutely working, just not very aggressively. Purely down to how he's set it up. At the time of typing, we're scheduled for another remote session this evening for him to rework the control calibration, and I'll go back and see if it then passes the test.

I do know that it's going to be very tricky, as the catalytic converter is integrated into the silencer casing, thus very small....but we'll see (and yes, I do have to retain a converter and comply with emissions, as it's a 1993 registered car which is the first year of cars needing to abide by emissions tests in the UK).

We also need to get that water cooling circuit operational, as even a light drive over a short distance is causing it to boil over and spew bright red coolant.

Keep you posted....

Spenny_b 08-14-2018 02:04 AM

Okay, just got the A/C pump off to make way for the RH engine mount swap....and the pulley on that definitely has some play.

I'm presuming there shouldn't be any play at all, despite there being a clutch mechanism in there?

TurboKraft 08-14-2018 08:17 AM

So close, Spencer!

Pat RUFBTR 08-15-2018 08:08 AM

Stand firm Spencer! Your experience(experiment) to cross(spend) my engine efi has me cools little, that seems complicated enough even by making things completely as you made him(it). ;)

Spenny_b 08-16-2018 12:07 PM

Well finally some positive news and distinct progress!!

For various reasons, the remote-in session a couple of nights ago didn't happen. We did get a quick session in last night, and hallelujah, the Lambda sensor is at last working beautifully.

[Interesting side note, and funny how "religious" folk are with preferences; Sam was pretty cutting with thoughts on Bosch sensors versus NTK, in his mind they're like chalk and cheese with a preference of NTK every single time. Interesting, I'd never really given it that much consideration before this project, a lambda sensor being just a lambda sensor, surely?....Nope, in my research I now understand more about these things than I ever wanted to know, and then consider the level of engines that Sam works with in his day job (LMP1, WRC, WTCR, Mazda Daytona Prototypes, etc), and what they use (NTK), perhaps that's useful info for some out there.....for reference, my sensor is the NTK "L2H2" which supercedes their previous L1H1, which translates as p/n LZA09-E1. Not quite the same as they use in the professional applications, but perfectly good for road cars and anything other than top-flight works applications. The R5 rally cars that run Life Racing, for example, use exactly this sensor.]

So, onto last nights tweaking session - I could detect the joy in Sams voice on the end of the phone when he could see (and hear) the closed loop control actually working for the first time on this engine; I think it's the most excited I've heard him, haha. A few moments later and unbelievably quick flitting of screens in SCal via Team Viewer (it was truly a blur), and I've got a refined calibration for annual testing purposes, and a further optimised calibration for my running-in duties.

A call over to my pal this afternoon, and he had a spare 30mins to get a re-test done on the emissions. Because of the rush to get over there, in my haste I forgot to switch over to the "MoT calibration" once the car was in the workshop (what a dumbass), but...it still passed! So, I'm all legal, and able to now start driving it once we rig up the water cooling circuit.

We've identified that it could be marginal driving the fluid pump directly from a PWM output on the ECU; steady state current draw is fine, but the inrush on startup may pop the drive output. Same goes for the Spal cooling fan.....so we're going to stick on the safe side and eventually drive it via a relay. No speed control by doing so, but not really needed in this instance, just on/off @100% controlled by the ECT sensor that's in the circuit.

In order to just get up and running, and over to Simon to make the modification properly, I'm going to temporarily rig up a +VE feed from something like the rear screen heater, ignition switched but with control via the demister switch.

Once done, I have a fortnight to get 300-400 miles driven and an oil change done, before heading up to Northampton Motorsport for a days dyno'ing.

TurboKraft 08-16-2018 03:10 PM

Fantastic news, Spencer! So relieved for you, I know it's been a major source of stress.

The change from PWM control to switched should be a simple one, and I cannot imagine you'd do any real harm driving it without that functioning as we drive these in 40C+ weather with no cooling circuit and don't experience bearing failures.

Looking forward to your driving reports!

Spenny_b 08-17-2018 01:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TurboKraft (Post 10145599)
Fantastic news, Spencer! So relieved for you, I know it's been a major source of stress.

The change from PWM control to switched should be a simple one, and I cannot imagine you'd do any real harm driving it without that functioning as we drive these in 40C+ weather with no cooling circuit and don't experience bearing failures.

Looking forward to your driving reports!

Cheers Chris, I'm more worried about the boiling-over of the fluid that is steadily "kettling" itself without any significant airflow over the radiator, as it's 100% shrouded by the cooling fan mounted to the outside.

Spenny_b 08-17-2018 01:45 PM

Just got back from the first real drive with empty dual carriageways, where I could start leaning on the boost. It's mapped very "softly" in terms of throttle opening but still with a boost limit of 0.7bar, so it gets there but not in a rapid manner. The primary reason for testing was to monitor the coolant temps using my Windows tablet and the Syvecs SMon software. Surprisingly, the airflow in that part of the car does look to be pretty significant; cruising anywhere between 50mph and 70(ish) mph, and the temps stay between 62-66ºC, and that was for about 18miles of driving. As soon as I slowed down coming back into my street and parking in the garage, they went up to 75-76ºC straight away.....so, in order to pile on the miles, I'm going to drive it over to Simons place in the morning, so we can rig-up a temporary solution to switch the fan and coolant pump on. Reckon it should be safe.

So, first thoughts on the drive itself....hmm, needs work. Predictably of course. Light throttle opening, i.e., when trundling through town, and it kangaroos all over the place. The only way to overcome it is to be more brutal with the throttle, and lift more frequently. This (I think) is due to a change Sam made the other evening once we had a working Lambda sensor, as it didn't do it on my first drive out. It's also stalling a lot easier, but again, a relatively easy change to make.

More worrying though, is that I've still got a very coarse vibration, I'm sure from the engine. Feels just like it's completely out of balance; like a washing-machine that's on a spin cycle, but with an uneven load in the drum. Sounds horrible, feels worse. Better under acceleration, but can't live with it like it is when cruising.

Engine mounts were changed the other day back to OE stock items from the genuine RS ones, and it's made no difference. Bit of a head-scratcher, as it was there on Engine v1.0 as well, exact same sensation. Wondering if it's perhaps a function of a single-mass flywheel? I still have the dual-mass item stored (and think I saw a receipt in the file, indicating it was only a thousand or two miles old when I bought the car).

"Answers on a postcard"....

Pat RUFBTR 08-17-2018 01:50 PM

Brilliant, I am great satisfied for you Spencer! :)

Pat RUFBTR 08-18-2018 01:34 AM

"More worrying though, is that I've still got a very coarse vibration, I'm sure from the engine. Feels just like it's completely out of balance; like a washing-machine that's on a spin cycle, but with an uneven load in the drum. Sounds horrible, feels worse. Better under acceleration, but can't live with it like it is when cruising."
Spencer, it is maybe a room in badly centered or badly balanced rotation.

Spenny_b 08-18-2018 01:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pat RUFBTR (Post 10147261)
"More worrying though, is that I've still got a very coarse vibration, I'm sure from the engine. Feels just like it's completely out of balance; like a washing-machine that's on a spin cycle, but with an uneven load in the drum. Sounds horrible, feels worse. Better under acceleration, but can't live with it like it is when cruising."
Spencer, it is maybe a room in badly centered or badly balanced rotation.

Hi Pat,

I'm certain it's not a balancing issue; if you remember from the backend of last year, I took the flywheel, rods, pistons and crank pulley (and even the cam position sprocket) up to one of the best balancing experts in the UK - it was all balanced to within a fraction of its life! (but this is what it feels like).

Chatting this through with Chris over the last few evenings, an excellent suggestion which I'll try, is to get the timing lights onto the crank pulley, and see whether there is timing variance on any of the firing cycles. I have to confess, when Chris mentioned it, and how easy it is for this to happen, I did think "that's EXACTLY what it feels like, mis-timed ignition"

My other thought was whether I have something as "simple" as a dead cylinder, but to have two failed plugs, or coils, or sections of wiring harness would be pretty unlikely....although not impossible, as it's exactly what we had on the engine dyno some years ago.

The diagnostics work will commence after the weekend....

Pat RUFBTR 08-18-2018 02:21 PM

Good evening Spencer, I look forward to knowing the bottom line of this history as regards this vibration, where from she results. You soon arrive at the end of your project, I am satisfied for you. :)

Spenny_b 08-18-2018 02:45 PM

So another update is due...

Today was the longest journey I've done in the car on Engine v2.0, about a 65 mile round-trip. Sounds trivial when talking about a modern car, but not so trivial when you're listening out for every little noise or sign of something not-quite-being-right. And of course, these old things are wonderfully old-skool; heavy steering, offset pedals, hugely mechanical gearshift, none of the DCT flappy paddle tech-fest of my daily driver!

With my Windows10 tablet booted up and connected to the wifi router for the whole journey, simply to monitor the engine coolant temp parameter, the journey was spectacularly uneventful. Sure, all of the quirks I mentioned in last nights post are still there, but I was able to drive around the kangarooing throttle, and so long as I kept moving, the temps remained in the mid 70ºC zone.

As mentioned yesterday, I'd intended a relatively quick visit to Simon, just to get a temporary harness rigged up to enable the water pump and fan....however, Simon very kindly said we may as well just crack-on and get it done properly with new relays installed. Passenger seat out, and we were soon at work making it so. All tested, everything working perfectly. The fan has been programmed to come on with ignition (for the time being), but it seems the pump hasn't yet been programmed to come on at all, as I had similar temps on my return trip. Of course, the fan is cooling the water in the radiator, but when relying on any natural syphoning of the fluid through the bearing housing, well, it's not too quick to cool the whole water circuit down. (A quick solution, of course is to short out the relay to permanently enable it until it's re-programmed).

I'm going to relocate my MAP sensor very close to the plenum of the intake, rather than having 45-50cm of silicon hose connecting it to where it's currently mounted on top of the 1-2-3 bank. Sam's keen to minimise any possibility of hose deformation under open throttle, as well as any delay with that amount of "dead air" in the pipework. Getting it closer will sharpen throttle response. So, another extension to the loom required, with two joining sections; the first section is to re-join it back onto the existing sensor I'm using. The second section will replace that, and connect to a different sensor I have, which will mount either into the plenum itself or very close to it and joined with a short section of -4 teflon hose. Another job done.

Next up was diagnosing why I don't have a working rev counter. We're still not completely on top of this one yet, however, strong progress today with some more modifications to the Syvecs mainboard, and a swap around between two of the PWM outputs. Essentially, by using "PWM 1" or "PWM 2" outputs, you then have the option to solder one of the bridges on the board, to incorporate a 470 Ohm pull-up resistor to 12v....which is what 99% of tacho's need, a PWM signal pulling to ground for each pulse. Measuring this output in several places on the 964 (easiest one being pin 14 in the diagnostic socket) meant we could monitor a pulse....but still nothing at the tacho. I'll trace it back, now that I'm back home and can remove the steering wheel and column shroud (can't remove the top half of the shroud as there's a hidden 3rd screw behind the steering boss...can't remove the tacho without removing the top shroud!). Hopefully it's just a plug not properly seated, but I guess it could be a blown tacho that needs repair.

Finally, a job I wasn't expecting to get done (or rather, another job I wasn't expecting to get done) was re-commissioning the A/C system. If you stretch your memory back a few years (about 3), I needed to re-work the A/C lines completely, as stock 964 Turbo lines kind of run diagonally in a curved/looped fashion to the A/C pump. No good for me, too much new stuff in the way, so I made new lines that ran tight to the bulkhead and behind the power steering pump to the front of the engine bay. Remarkably simple, once I’d also completely fabricated new mounting blocks onto the pump itself, so they clear the intercooler and other bits-n-bobs. Up until today, the welds had only been tested with a penetrating dye but never subjected to A/C gas or even a vacuum test. Now, as luck would have it, Simon also has a full A/C recharging rig – this is the other side of his business.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v2...d/IMG_4156.jpg

As the hoses had been open to the air for some while, with the engine builds happening, I had intended replacing the (brand new) drier cannister. But it wasn’t high on the priority list. Simons advice, however, was that if we vacuum the hell out of the system for an hour or two, and use Nitrogen to flush it, then we should be fine…..fingers crossed that the fabricated connections and brand new rubber lines and fittings, are all good. And they were!! Vacuum held perfectly, and an hour or so after letting it suck everything out, we had a fully charged system, chilling down to 11ºC (with significant heat soak into the car and radiator, as we’d been firing it up throughout the morning to test things. No forward motion of course, either. Very happy with that, the A/C pump still works, the clutch engages, perfecto!

So, I’m sitting here typing this at (almost) midnight, still grinning – a very positive day, lots of progress. Still a few jobs to get done of course, primarily checking the timing, but it’s moving in the right direction finally!!

Pat RUFBTR 08-19-2018 12:44 AM

Which just goes to show that you should never lose hope! :)


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