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Here is the link to my 3.2 top end-plus.

If I can do it so can you.

Vermont First Engine Drop-87 Targa
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Current Rides:: 1987 Red 911 Targa, 2007 R320 CDI, 2003 Red Dodge Ram Hemi, 1993 Beater Jeep Cherokee, Airbus A320
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Old 10-26-2015, 06:22 PM
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Thanks for all the advice so far. It's been very helpful. I finally got started on the car this week. A major faux pas was that the posts I read about removing the transmission referred to 915s and mine is a G-50. They are different beasts, and when I got to the point of disconnecting the shifter I was in a rather desperate situation and had to improvise.

The first thing I did was mount my car on my "lift". I basically drive it up on my trailer, put the ends of the ramps up on jack stands, and roll the car back.



It works pretty well. When I want to raise the car I raise each side 2 inches at a time with a floor jack.



I ordered a Harbor Freight 800lb capacity transmission jack to lower the engine/transmission. The engine and transmission weight 600 lbs together, so an 800 lb jack should be 30% over built. Not. The engine/transmission just squashed this jack. It lowered itself at a rate of about an inch a minute, so I was rushing around trying to figure out how to get the shifter loose, stopping to pump up the jack, rinse, repeat. I couldn't get to the Bentley book to see if there was any advice because I had to keep pumping the jack. I finally figured it out.



I'm looking at something like this 2000 lb unit. It's going to take a hefty jack with great stability to get this beast back into that little hole.



I was careful to remove this little throttle rod extension. I twisted it off once before and tried to get a new one - $18 for a 6" threaded rod! I braised this one back together and I didn't want to put undue stress on it, so I got it out of the way.



I was struggling to get the engine free of the car. Every time the engine lowered the the car would come down on the suspension. After a few rounds of frantically pumping the jack and rushing around desperately trying to find what was hung up I finally discovered the throttle rod was caught on the CV-joint.



I noticed this small hose that was not connected to anything. It's located above the right front of the engine. So far I haven't found where it plugs in. I'm taking my engine out to fix massive oil burning, so please don't tell me this is the Massive Oil Burning Control Valve vacuum source.




An interesting discovery made with the engine out on the floor. The top bolt that holds the engine/starter/transmission together was in finger tight and the starter was hanging free of the transmission flange by 1/8 inch. This helps confirm my choice to do this myself instead of taking back to the mechanic who used to work on it. He did a clutch in the car (a bad story) so he was the last to have tightened this nut.




Once the engine was free of the car I pushed the car back on the trailer an took it home for storage.




In a few days I'll make some more progress. It's fall planting season now and I've got garlic and blueberries to get into the ground.
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Old 11-07-2015, 12:17 AM
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One thing u might consider 'while u are in there' are rod bearings and head studs and have the P&C 's reconditioned. Everything but cracking the case
Old 11-21-2015, 01:55 AM
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Creative with the trailer.
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Old 11-21-2015, 05:17 AM
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Head studs are definitely on the agenda. Rod bearings and ARP bolts are on there too.
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Old 11-24-2015, 09:35 PM
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87 - 911
 
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That little sucker came loose on me as well.

Save the picture for reassembly

Old 11-25-2015, 04:44 PM
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smoking

Hi,you did not say how many miles there were.This is is a two hour inspection and repair and if your oil is clean you do not have to change it.Find a good local shop that has the exhaust side tool to remove the springs.They will put a minimum.of 60psi in the spark plug at TDC to keep the valve in place.Remove the old seal and look at the clearance between the guide and valve.Start with #6.You can not use the original brown viton seal as they are flexible and will not sit evenly after the install.Use the white teflon seal because when you lightly tap it on you can feel it seat to the guide.To avoid the oil change,jack up one side do #4,5,6.Then the same to the other side.For rocker removal use a propane torch and warm up the cam tower at each rocker and you can slide the shaft to the side.If motor has not been worked on this works fine.Reassemble and no more smoke.With this method you see the amount of wear between valve and guide.I used to charge $300-350 for this repair.I am retired but there are lots of good techs out there.Good Luck.Fred Apgar
Old 11-26-2015, 10:30 AM
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Thanks Fred,
I've done that trick on small block Chevys, but all the other advice I've gotten is that the problem on these 3.2s is caused by the guides themselves. It has 90k miles.
I'm glad I took the engine out if for no other reason than that I found the loose starter. Both barrel nuts were loose and it was flopping around. It could have ruined the new flywheel.
About the flywheel - and why I'm doing this myself.
A couple of years ago a problem developed where the clutch would engage instantly - like an on-off switch - if I sat at a traffic light holding the pedal down. I took it to the recommended local guy, told him I thought there was a hydraulic leak in the clutch system. He installed a new disc, pressure place, TOB, flywheel, and new rear main seal. It did nothing to fix the problem. The car sat until I got some free time, and I replaced the leaking clutch slave cylinder myself and fixed the problem. I did take it to him to do a second opinion on the leak down test. He, too found 2-3% except for #5 which was 4%. He recommended getting a used engine.
So I'm DYIing it now, even if it means keeping the car off the road until I get around to things.
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Last edited by wdfifteen; 11-26-2015 at 05:37 PM..
Old 11-26-2015, 05:33 PM
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Made some progress.
I got the intake and exhaust systems off and got the engine stripped down far enough to take it outside and power wash it. I've been spraying the exhaust nuts with Gibbs penetrant for 2 weeks, and all the exhaust nuts came off. No broken studs, though a couple came out of the head. I was rushing to get to this point because winter is about to set in and I don't want to be out power washing in the snow. While I was working on the engine I sent my eager but naive wife out to power wash the transmission.
"Have you ever played with a power washer sweetie?"
"No, but it looks easy."
"Oh yes, easy and FUN!"
By the time she finished she looked like a wet chicken.



Back inside the shop.

#6 exhaust port was caked with wet carbon deposits.



#5 had carbon buildup, but it was dry.



#4 was wet, but didn't have as much carbon



The ports in the other side of the engine looked dryer and had fewer deposits. This means it's burning oil for sure (like I didn't already know that). It remains to be seen where it's coming from.
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Old 11-27-2015, 11:13 PM
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Looking really good!!

Send those heads to Craig, cgarr on here and he will rebuilt them and make them new!

Sonax does a great job of cleaning the aluminum.
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Old 11-28-2015, 04:08 AM
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You're doing great! When I was restoring a 70 mustang, I had my wife use aircraft stripper to strip the headlight buckets. She did a great job. Later that night without thinking, I told her dad "she was the best stripper I ever saw." A double whammy!

You definitely have leaky seals/guides. Once you get it all apart, you will be surprised how simple these engines really are to work on. Are you adding more aggressive cams, compression, etc.?
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Old 11-28-2015, 04:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scbrindley View Post

Other things to consider:
sound pad
reference mark sensors
fuel lines
cylinder heat temperature sensor
oil pressure sensor
needle bearing/bushing
plugs/rotar/cap/wires
Thanks Scbrindley. I saw a comprehensive "While You are in there" list here somewhere but I can't find it.

Items I have so far:

fuel lines
send out injectors for cleaning
plugs, rotor, cap, wires
ARP rod bolts
rod bearings
Rings
What am I missing?

Also, is the Porsche muffler supposed to have a small hole in it? I know a lot of other types of mufflers have a weep hole to let water out. I don't know if that's what this little pin hole is or if the muffler is rusting.
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Old 11-28-2015, 05:28 PM
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Replace lower studs (dilivar) with OE steel
Replace chain ramps
Address the "triangle of death" oil leakage
Add RSR seals to rocker shafts (at least on the exhaust side)
Replace engine compartment sound mat
Clutch, throw out bearing, and pilot bearing
Old 11-29-2015, 06:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shrtshck View Post
Replace lower studs (dilivar) with OE steel
Lower only? This is a question I've been researching all over the boards. Are the top studs on a 3.2 steel and OK to reuse? I only need to replace the lower studs?
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Old 11-29-2015, 06:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wdfifteen View Post
Lower only? This is a question I've been researching all over the boards. Are the top studs on a 3.2 steel and OK to reuse? I only need to replace the lower studs?
Looking at my invoice/build sheet I see my lower dilivar studs were replaced with steel but there isn't a note about replacing or reusing the uppers.

I believe they were reused but I'd have to check with the shop.

Hopefully someone can chime in and provide some clarity.

Also, check your clutch. My car still had the original one and surprisingly it was a rubber center....I thought Porsche stopped using those by '89. We replaced with a new Sachs part.
Old 11-29-2015, 07:59 AM
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Thank you. I'm confident the whole clutch issue has been taken care of. Release arm update and everything from the crank seal forward had been replaced (post #28). It would be nice if I can avoid the $100+ cost of upper studs. I am assuming all new nuts and washers would be required.
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Old 11-29-2015, 05:26 PM
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General consensus is the steel studs don't break and they're fine for engines under ~300 hp. Yes the top studs on your engine are steel.

Another general consensus is the teflon white valve stem seals are too good. Meaning, they seal the oil too good and starve the valve stem of lubrication. The brown (or are they black nowadays?) viton rubber seals are better. A friend recently did his '87 3.2 heads on his ~170K miles engine and the guides were wasted. This was an engine that had previous top end work and the white seals were used.

cgarr/G2 Performance is indeed the man for head work. I and a number of local friends have used him with confidence, as he's a personal friend and part of our local clan of midwestern track/racing group. Craig & his brother Denny are good people.
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Old 11-30-2015, 07:27 AM
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Not much progress this week. The cam holder tool hasn't arrived so I'm puttering around, cleaning the shop and cleaning parts. I tried to do another leak-down test just for grins. Even though the leakage numbers were low I wanted to hear where the air was leaking. I sprayed some fogging oil in the cylinders and rotated the engine a few times. Unfortunately taking the engine apart and moving it around dislodged a lot of crud in the ports. There were chunks of carbon lodged under the exhaust valves and pieces of gasket under the intakes, so I couldn't determine anything. I tried a couple of cylinders and got 100% leakage. I could see oil bubbling out around the intake valves. It was a waste of time.

Is there a trick to getting the head temperature sender out?

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Last edited by wdfifteen; 12-04-2015 at 10:25 AM..
Old 12-04-2015, 10:21 AM
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If my memory is correct, the cyl head temp sensor is 14mm hex size. I used a flare nut wrench (like the kind you use on brake lines) to remove the old one and install the new one.

Keep in mind that the old one is garbage since it's only a single wire sensor and known to be faulty. So there's nothing wrong with cutting the wire and using a regular 14mm socket to remove it.
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Old 12-04-2015, 10:29 AM
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Good luck! Reading your thread is like a trip down memory lane. I went for new rod bearings, rings and honed cylinders in addition to the valve job and a bunch of other while-your-at-its.
87 Drop Top - Drop-n-Top End
One tip: check your valve timing before you finish dis-assembly. This accomplished two things for me: It gave me a base-line starting point (due to worn chains the timing was a little late) and provided a good confidence-building practice run for when I put the whole thing back together.

Two thousand + miles later she runs great and doesn't burn or leak a drop of oil. Count mine as another success story. I hope yours is too.
GK
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Old 12-04-2015, 12:45 PM
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