Pelican Parts
Parts Catalog Accessories Catalog How To Articles Tech Forums
Call Pelican Parts at 888-280-7799
Shopping Cart Cart | Project List | Order Status | Help



Go Back   Pelican Parts Forums > Porsche Forums > 911 Engine Rebuilding Forum


Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Rate Thread
Author
Thread Post New Thread    Reply
Actual Porsche owner
 
wdfifteen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: SW Ohio
Posts: 20,508
Garage
3.2 top end, I'm about to bite the bullet

At 90k miles my '88 NA Carrera burns oil like crazy. Pull up to a stop sign and the oil smoke cloud wafts over the car - it's embarrassing. The worst cylinder on the leak-down is 4%. The rest are 2 or 3. Oil level is at the minimum on the dipstick. So I'm figuring valve guides.
I've read many threads here and I've got the Bentley manual but I'm still nervous. I've rebuilt a dozen or so 356/912s and easily over 100 air cooled VWs but this 911 has me intimidated. I have questions.
Can I expect to balance the engine/trans on a floor jack to lower it out of the car or should I use something else? Transmission jack?
I need a 911 engine stand head, cam holder tool, and any other special tools that are required. Does anyone rent those? I don't expect to have this engine out ever again.
I thought I saw a "while you're in there" list here somewhere but can't find it now.
From reading threads here I'm thinking:
Rebuild fuel lines
head studs
reseal
have oil cooler tested
injectors cleaned and tested
What else?
__________________
.
Old 09-26-2015, 04:09 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #1 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Prescott, AZ
Posts: 815
When I dropped the engine out of my 964, I used my floor Jack under the trans. Bought a Harbor Freight ATV Jack for under the engine. Used a length of 2x8 across the two ATV Jack pads that the heat exchangers sat on. Nice and stable for a one-man drop. BTW, you only need the cam tool for assembly. An impact gun zips the cam bolts off with no strain on the chains when you dissemble it.
__________________
1990 964 Coupe
1986 Carrera 3.2 Targa
Old 09-26-2015, 06:00 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #2 (permalink)
Registered User
 
michael lang's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: adamstown md
Posts: 1,093
Garage
I wish you the best of luck, I too took the plunge by myself. I used my Bentley manual, this forum and YouTube as my guide on how to do things as I've not taken on a project with my car so big. Along the way I would buy the tools that I needed. It helped doing it that way because it allowed me to shop for the tool while still being able to do other things on my engine. The first thing that I would do is figure out what your goals for the rebuild will be. Are you interested in more power, do you want higher torque for stronger acceleration or do you want to address the oil consumption issue and be done with it from there? All these things come into play when you are trying to figure out how you want to approach your rebuild. There were two guys in the Connecticut area that I referred to on more than a few occasions that had rebuild threads. I'm sorry, I cannot remember their names but they were just regular guys doing rebuilds on their own and posting about their experience. Don't be afraid to ask questions , there is a lot of knowledge here and I'm sure you already know that. Best of luck in what ever you end up doing.
__________________
Mike

'89 CARRERA
#402
Old 09-27-2015, 03:59 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #3 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 385
Garage
Seems like really low leak down numbers for a rebuild. You sure you don't have a significant external oil leak dripping onto your heat exchangers or exhaust causing the smoke?
__________________
1990 964 C2 Coupe - Black / Cashmere
Old 09-28-2015, 03:36 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #4 (permalink)
87 - 911
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Ontario, Canada
Posts: 191
When I replaced the guides in my 87 there were puddles of oil over the closed intake valves. Suspect that the large oil leakage into the combustion chamber results in over stated compression numbers and reduced leakage in the leak down test. What you think is a "dry" cylinder number is in fact a wet cylinder number.
Also, assuming the valves are seated and rings are in good shape you will get good leak down numbers as the valve guide condition does not come into play for the test.
After replacing the guides my oil usage went from a liter in 300 kms to one every 3,000 kms.
Read everything you can before getting into the job, once underway the "board" will have your back.
Old 09-28-2015, 04:52 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #5 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Austin, TX
Posts: 213
Garage
I just rebuilt with similar symptoms and leak down numbers....was tired of the smoke cloud catching up to me at a stop light!

The valve guides were the main reason for the rebuild. ....the words "while we are in there" are dangerous.

I replaced all valve guides, springs, rods, belts, etc. and while we had the cylinders off went ahead and did new rings.

If you still have a rubber center clutch you might want to drop in a newer sachs unit while it's apart.

Other things to consider:
sound pad
reference mark sensors
fuel lines
cylinder heat temperature sensor
oil pressure sensor
needle bearing/bushing
plugs/rotar/cap/wires

Last edited by Scbrindley; 09-29-2015 at 07:35 AM..
Old 09-29-2015, 07:33 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #6 (permalink)
 
Registered User
 
ganun's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Miami, FL
Posts: 1,003
Garage
And JB Weld the case corners behind the oil cooler where there is a known porosity area that can leak oil. Check the forum.
You'll also check:
the cam for pitting
rockers and shafts for wear on the pad and the bush
__________________
87 911 coupe, GP white, cashmere/black
64 Alfa Romeo Giulia TI - the violin
89 Peugeot 505 Turbowagon-other Pcar
67 912 coupe, white, sold
04 Audi Allroad 2.7T
Old 09-29-2015, 11:37 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #7 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Clifton, VA
Posts: 153
I would not sweat it...You have prior experience!!

Buy the book "How to rebuild and modify Porsche 911 Engines 1965 - 1989" by Wayne Dempsey. Awesome book provides recommendations and a general cost of what to expect..I spent a bunch more since I replaced things that probably did not need..but keep a spreadsheet of what you spent and items...

I just did a full rebuild on my 79 930.(17 months)..and I have had no prior experience to this magnitude, and I made it. Well at this point I have not completed the 500 total miles but all is good so far.

I rented the shop crane and then purchased one used. Specialty tools will be needed. Do include it into your budget. The book explains with pictures as well as the bentley.

You will need an Air/fuel gauge as well as a fuel tester which you might be able to get at the local Autozone for renting..

Just bag, tag and take LOTS OF Photo's, take more photo's and take your time. I wish I had taken the time to take more photo's. Do every angle possible.

Of course this site has gobs of info...I did lots of reading...

Shop around and buy in bulk to save on shipping charges. I did lots of purchases through Pelican but I found many other sites had better prices and sometimes free shipping...

Cheers
__________________
Scott

1979 930 - Black on Black and in the woods

"My third child that will cost more in the long run" :shock:

Last edited by vascott01; 09-29-2015 at 01:51 PM..
Old 09-29-2015, 01:33 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #8 (permalink)
gtc gtc is offline
abides.
 
gtc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Seattle, WA
Posts: 7,575
Garage
A transmission jack and a lift make the engine drop/reinstall a simple operation.

The assembly process was a lot easier than I expected.

There is some place online that rents the tools, but it's easier to buy the tools outright and sell them when you're done for 80 cents on the dollar.
__________________
Graham
1984 Carrera Targa
Old 09-29-2015, 03:18 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #9 (permalink)
Porschemachinist
 
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: Bay Area
Posts: 8
Will be happy to assist in any way. Including cam timing, etc. You don't have to purchase cam tools for one time. Phone anytime. Ted, 408 844 8331
Old 10-01-2015, 09:52 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #10 (permalink)
Porschemachinist
 
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: Bay Area
Posts: 8
Also can UC clean cooler, pressure test
Old 10-01-2015, 09:53 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #11 (permalink)
Actual Porsche owner
 
wdfifteen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: SW Ohio
Posts: 20,508
Garage
Quote:
Originally Posted by pnut_lee View Post
Seems like really low leak down numbers for a rebuild. You sure you don't have a significant external oil leak dripping onto your heat exchangers or exhaust causing the smoke?
I'm fairly convinced the problem must be valve guides. I've poured over this forum and the general 911 forum, done the tests and inspections that have been recommended

1. did a leakdown test then had a shop do it to confirm my numbers
2. checked oil level, I drained it and got 9 quarts out of the engine and tank. Put 7 back in, warmed it up and checked the level and added oil until it was at the bottom of the dipstick (that was 2 more quarts as I recall). Then drove it 100 miles or so in case it had been over full and filled the muffler.
3. Checked for external leaks.

Anything else?

I'm not doing a rebuild, just a valve job. I don't want more horsepower, I just want to stop the oil consumption. My goal is to get back to doing DEs and learn to be a better driver. I don't need a lot of horsepower for that (well, maybe if I get really good ... )
The cloud of blue smoke wafting around the car is so embarrassing I don't drive it much at all right now.
__________________
.
Old 10-01-2015, 10:17 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #12 (permalink)
Actual Porsche owner
 
wdfifteen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: SW Ohio
Posts: 20,508
Garage
Quote:
Originally Posted by porschemachinis View Post
Will be happy to assist in any way. Including cam timing, etc. You don't have to purchase cam tools for one time. Phone anytime. Ted, 408 844 8331
Wow. Thanks for that.
There has been another delay due to issues with my business, so now it may be a month before I get started. I was going to do it last fall but an hour-long project on my Speedster ended up taking all winter. A series of unfortunate events
__________________
.

Last edited by wdfifteen; 10-01-2015 at 10:43 PM..
Old 10-01-2015, 10:23 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #13 (permalink)
87 - 911
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Ontario, Canada
Posts: 191
Search out the "triangle of death", easy and inexpensive to deal with while the engine is out.
Also include in new chain ramps, again easy to address while the top end is apart and not expensive.
Old 10-02-2015, 01:52 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #14 (permalink)
Project Addicted
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Hudson Valley New York
Posts: 915
Many good threads on top end rebuilds in these forums. Dig up the one Rus has. His screen name is rmm and his thread covers just about all of it.
__________________
Jon

1966 912
1976 911 3.4 Backdate Project
1986 944
Old 10-02-2015, 06:15 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #15 (permalink)
Actual Porsche owner
 
wdfifteen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: SW Ohio
Posts: 20,508
Garage
Sounds like just what I'm looking for. Pelican search can't find a username rmm though.
__________________
.
Old 10-04-2015, 04:31 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #16 (permalink)
Project Addicted
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Hudson Valley New York
Posts: 915
Sorry about that!! r-mm

1st drop & top end observations & questions
__________________
Jon

1966 912
1976 911 3.4 Backdate Project
1986 944
Old 10-04-2015, 05:01 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #17 (permalink)
Actual Porsche owner
 
wdfifteen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: SW Ohio
Posts: 20,508
Garage
Thanks. I ordered a transmission jack from Harbor Freight this morning. I have to clear some stuff off my schedule and then I'm on it.
__________________
.
Old 10-08-2015, 11:30 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #18 (permalink)
Call 911
 
dkirk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Fond du Lac, WI
Posts: 202
Garage
Several years ago I did the top-end on my '88 coupe, but had the luxury of a friends lift which made the job much easier. I really enjoyed the experience, being able to work on a genuine Porsche 911 engine, knowing that it was mine, and that the job was going to be done right. Here's my story:

3.2 Top End Overhaul A Success Story

Since the rebuild, my engine has run flawlessly with oil consumption being similar to what others have stated. No more "blue hue" behind the car and no more burning oil smell from the heating system. I heartily recommend Anchor Atlantic for cylinder head reconditioning.

Best of luck - take pictures - keep us informed.
__________________
Dave Kirk

My Porsche restoreth my soul.
Old 10-22-2015, 02:06 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #19 (permalink)
Actual Porsche owner
 
wdfifteen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: SW Ohio
Posts: 20,508
Garage
^
Thanks Dave. I'll look that up.
I took out the AC compressor and started disconnecting the engine compartment wires this morning. I'm just puttering now because I'll be out of town all next week. When I get back I can get started in earnest.
__________________
.
Old 10-23-2015, 11:30 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #20 (permalink)
Reply

Thread Tools
Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

 


All times are GMT -8. The time now is 01:45 PM.


 
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0
Copyright 2018 Pelican Parts, LLC - Posts may be archived for display on the Pelican Parts Website -    DMCA Registered Agent Contact Page
 

DTO Garage Plus vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.