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wprater 03-06-2016 09:52 AM

Measured deck height and heads were CC'd
 
Was able to install the #1 cylinder and measure the deck height using the simple method of measuring the distance from start of the piston to the top of the cylinder. It was a bit low at 0.81mm with one 0.25mm shim, so I'll get a new set of 0.5mm shims and try again.

I did not have to deal with the solder method, but to get another set of measurements to be safe, I'll do that today.

The heads were CC'd by the machinist and were from 90.4cc to 91.6cc.

With my current deck height, that puts me at 10.5:1 - 10.7:1 CR. This will be a couple points lower with another 0.25mm deck added.

Going out of town for a week.. but all I want to do is finish this build!!! :) Going to try and finish everything week of the 14th!

https://www.dropbox.com/s/5ff7oqtm93...jpg?dl=0&raw=1
https://www.dropbox.com/s/kqw7xoquye...jpg?dl=0&raw=1

wprater 03-06-2016 10:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by al lkosmal (Post 9025633)
Thanks for the feedback on the Wiseco install tool. I have yet to find the ring compressor tool and method that doesn't make me pucker up, more than a little bit, every time I use it. I just finished rebuilding a nice 3.0. This was an engine that sat around for years, but the story was that it was rebuilt just prior to being sidelined. During my dis-assembly of the engine, it was clear that it had been rebuilt and was nearly perfect inside......with the exception of broken compression rings on 1,2,3....which likely occurred during assembly of the previous rebuild.....

regards,
al

PS: nice project

thanks!

the compression rings were no problem. it's just that the oil ring on these Wossner's weren't all that oversized, kinda flush and this tool just was not tight enough. It could also have to do with the +3 bore. bottom line is that I'd prefer a tool with a variable compression next time.

I presume there is no real way for me to know if a ring is broken unless I pull all of them again?

al lkosmal 03-06-2016 10:20 AM

I don't know of a good way other than inspection and testing. The 3 cylinders with the broken compression rings all had bad leak-down numbers during my initial, cold, leak-down test...38%-64%...the cylinders with good rings were 2%-4%. I've never done a leak-down test on P&C assemblies, prior to install....but I suppose that, with a little fab work, a simple test rig could be made. Might be good as a comparison test between a known good P&C assembly and other assemblies to detect broken rings, etc.....hmmmm.

regards,
al

wprater 03-06-2016 10:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by al lkosmal (Post 9025676)
I don't know of a good way other than inspection and testing. The 3 cylinders with the broken compression rings all had bad leak-down numbers during my initial, cold, leak-down test...38%-64%...the cylinders with good rings were 2%-4%. I've never done a leak-down test on P&C assemblies, prior to install....but I suppose that, with a little fab work, a simple test rig could be made. Might be good as a comparison test between a known good P&C assembly and other assemblies to detect broken rings, etc.....hmmmm.

regards,
al

Im certain my compression rings are OK. and 95% sure these oil rings are too :) but just that slight stopping point on the install had me worrying while I slept last night..

al lkosmal 03-06-2016 11:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wprater (Post 9025682)
Im certain my compression rings are OK. and 95% sure these oil rings are too :) but just that slight stopping point on the install had me worrying while I slept last night..

I know the feeling....that is pucker power.....

IXjamesXI 03-07-2016 03:58 AM

Beautiful car and nice looking rebuild! Data point: I recently did a set of pistons with the wiseco tool and I know exactly the "feeling" you are talking about but I would say have no fear. They were a little "clicky" going in and i needed to wiggle things a bit but that feeling is nothing like breaking a ring.. I think you really would have had to use a lot of force to do that and the tool really won't let enough ring show to get the kind of leverage on it you'd need to break it as long as the tool is tight up against the cylinder. Way less risk of a ring slipping out between the cylinder and the compressor than a band style. I just used finger power.. No tapping with a hammer handle or anything. The jerky feeling is just the piston being less than perfectly aligned in the two bores in my opinion. Overall I like the tool. Easier for me than a traditional ring compressor.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1457355087.jpg

IXjamesXI 03-07-2016 04:14 AM

Also another observation.. is that piston upside down?? Be careful!

wprater 03-07-2016 07:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by IXjamesXI (Post 9026529)
Also another observation.. is that piston upside down?? Be careful!

are you saying that because the writing is upside down?? I oriented the cylinder fins towards the bottom and the motor and then placed he cylinder the the arrow pointing up. that's correct?!

wprater 03-07-2016 08:04 AM

installing those circlips!!
 
I had one hell of a time getting these circlips onto the pistons on one side. I'm worried about getting them installed while attached to the engine.

maybe these Wossner pins are exceptionally tough?! tips??!

IXjamesXI 03-07-2016 08:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wprater (Post 9026817)
are you saying that because the writing is upside down?? I oriented the cylinder fins towards the bottom and the motor and then placed he cylinder the the arrow pointing up. that's correct?!

Maybe my eyes are playing tricks on me but it looks like the larger valve relief is on the bottom in the picture you posted. However, the intake valve is bigger than the exhaust valve, so you should have the small relief down and the big relief up. Which would mean the arrow would face down.. but why would they print the arrow to face down? Maybe I am just not seeing this correctly.

Quote:

Originally Posted by wprater (Post 9025642)


KTL 03-07-2016 08:39 AM

Good catch. I agree that piston looks upside down. The intake valves are indeed larger and therefore the larger valve relief should be up.

I like the tapered ring compressors. They work good. It's just an acquired feel/talent to get the pistons in. I agree 100% with what IXjamesXI said. You have to wiggle the piston in and make sure the tool is well seated on the cylinder so the ring doesn't catch a gap as you go from the tool into the cylinder. Also, make sure to very lightly lubricate the ring compressor surface to help them slide home.

If you're using the Electromotive XDi ignition, make sure to use a timing light or voltmeter to confirm your timing settings. DO NOT simply go by what you set the dials to. Also make sure you account for the position of your timing sensor relative to the teeth on the pulley. At TDC #1, the center of the sensor must be aligned with the trailing edge of the 11th tooth after the two missing teeth (gap). So if your sensor doesn't sit in that position at TDC#1, you have to account for that in your timing settings. Each tooth represents six degrees. So if the sensor is aligned with the trailing edge of the 12th tooth, the timing will be advanced by six degrees.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1457371968.jpg

If you're using an older Electromotive HPV-whatever or HPX, I wouldn't mount the boards on the engine. The engine vibrations will eventually kill the electronics in the boards. The XDi system is better because the DFU boards are "dumb" and only have the coils on them. The XDi microprocessing is in the XDi ECU, unlike the old DFU boards that are a complete package all in the board.

wprater 03-07-2016 11:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by IXjamesXI (Post 9026830)
Maybe my eyes are playing tricks on me but it looks like the larger valve relief is on the bottom in the picture you posted. However, the intake valve is bigger than the exhaust valve, so you should have the small relief down and the big relief up. Which would mean the arrow would face down.. but why would they print the arrow to face down? Maybe I am just not seeing this correctly.

I thought that was odd as well.. but when I called Wossner to confirm, they said that the arrow meant UP. Weird, indeed.. nothing is permanent, so I will move them.

wprater 03-07-2016 11:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KTL (Post 9026862)
I like the tapered ring compressors. They work good. It's just an acquired feel/talent to get the pistons in. I agree 100% with what IXjamesXI said. You have to wiggle the piston in and make sure the tool is well seated on the cylinder so the ring doesn't catch a gap as you go from the tool into the cylinder. Also, make sure to very lightly lubricate the ring compressor surface to help them slide home.

yeah, I started to get the hang of it.. finger strength pushing down evenly, trying not to wiggle back and forth too much. It's comforting to hear this feedback; knowing nothing was out of wack and things are solid!

wprater 03-07-2016 11:42 AM

thanks for the tips on timing.. it's been on my mind, I should be there end of next week when Im back in town! going to be a full week for me!

Quote:

Originally Posted by KTL (Post 9026862)
If you're using an older Electromotive HPV-whatever or HPX, I wouldn't mount the boards on the engine. The engine vibrations will eventually kill the electronics in the boards. The XDi system is better because the DFU boards are "dumb" and only have the coils on them. The XDi microprocessing is in the XDi ECU, unlike the old DFU boards that are a complete package all in the board.

I will be using the XDi2 and had my heads threaded for a knock bridge and will be installing knock sensors so I can back off timing if needed. any tips on getting these setup too is appreciated! I'll be mounting the coil boards above the breather cover on a mount that Clewett Engineering made.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/j73xa15sru...jpg?dl=0&raw=1

KTL 03-07-2016 12:03 PM

Yep i've got that board mounting setup too. Just make sure your breather hose beneath it clears the bottom of the board OK. You don't want that hose to wear thru and leak. There's quite a lot of oil that the engine spits back into the oil tank.

XDi2 has knock control? Nice! I have just the base XDi and haven't used it yet. I had the old HPV-1 and upgraded to the XDi. I was thinking I might use a J&S Electronics knock control unit since my XDi isn't knock-compatible. But it's pretty simple with the way you've got it set up via the 964/993 bridges bolted to the heads and have the factory knock sensor. All you gotta do is get the sensor "talking" to the knock controller and you're all set!

IXjamesXI 03-07-2016 12:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wprater (Post 9027154)
I thought that was odd as well.. but when I called Wossner to confirm, they said that the arrow meant UP. Weird, indeed.. nothing is permanent, so I will move them.

You could always leave it as is, flip the heads over, grind custom cams, and be the first pelican to do an engine 918 style. Exhausts sticking out of the decklid anyone??!!

wprater 03-07-2016 02:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by IXjamesXI (Post 9027276)
You could always leave it as is, flip the heads over, grind custom cams, and be the first pelican to do an engine 918 style. Exhausts sticking out of the decklid anyone??!!


haha! maybe it's a new revelation! Ive got a few spare cams and can toss in the mix. fire breathing out the decklid!

wprater 03-20-2016 01:09 PM

got the 993 knock bridges ready
 
needed to tap a new M10 x 1.5 for these knock sensors I'll be using.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/748jtcu0wt...peg?dl=0&raw=1

wprater 03-20-2016 01:15 PM

CCing heads
 
Going to start CC'ing my heads today, as they vary a bit and I want them to be equal, since I should have relatively hight compression at 10.5:1.

I'll be doing this with the heads assembled on the engine and using some ATF and rubbing alcohol mixture.

Got a 50ml burette with 1ml graduations and a measurement tool to fill these up through the primary spark plug.

I read that I need to grease the top compression ring up so fluid won't seep down to the cylinder. Can I use lithium grease for this? and to clean it off, will I need to completely remove the piston again?

Going to start with #1 today as it's the only one I could get a darn wrist pin clip onto, have an injector tool coming tomorrow.

I have three heads that will need to be massaged for about ~0.5 - 1.0cc which I plan to do with a die grinder and small bits in the spark plug area.

wprater 03-21-2016 02:59 AM

PC some parts
 
Going to take a bunch of parts to be PC. I have two fan housings and one is attached to a 5-blade. Those fans are quite stubborn to remove.

I ended up threaded two of the holes with an M6 x 1.0 tap and slowly alternated each bolt to pull the fan off. Worked like a charm!

https://www.dropbox.com/s/101gslyotd...jpg?dl=0&raw=1

But getting off the alternator is not so easy..

https://www.dropbox.com/s/u65vjb1a9r...jpg?dl=0&raw=1


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