Efi options

[tocobill]

IF your going to run a IR system you will need the capabilities of the XFI. If you are using a MAF style efi intake the EZ Fast system should work better for that.

[Walt Fricke]

I know what an ITB is, but what's an IR?

[mb911]

Originally Posted by tocobill

I have FAST efi on my cobra replica. Its the EZ system that self tunes and learns. It does not like work well with any cam that will have alot of valve overlap and a 8 stack IR intake. I have a very lumpy cam that is on the border of valve overlap for the system but should still work fine. It doesnt. Runs richer then it should. No way to modulate anything. The low vacuum signal doesnt allow the MAP sensor to tune mid or rolling throttle very well. idle and WOT it runs great. I learned that the hard way. If you get a system upgrade to the XFI system from Fast. It wil allow you to take it to a tuner or tune it yourself. The EZ system does not allow you to do this. The extra few bucks spent will def pay off in the long run when you change parts or want to build that engine either milder or even a wild.

Interesting.. So maybe a 3.2 intake and tbitz kit really is the way to go? Hmm

[Mark Henry]

Originally Posted by mb911

Interesting.. So maybe a 3.2 intake and tbitz kit really is the way to go? Hmm

tbitz is just one option, I believe it's just a 911 sorted Megasquirt (MS) system that come with a base (fuel values) map And most of the bits needed in a well thought out package.

These items can be bought separately (or fabricated) for any efi system you choose to use, just depends on your skill level. A EFI system is just the brain and harness you still have to add the injectors, some of the sensors, fuel pump, regulators, lines, intake, etc. All systems need a certain amount of fab work, mostly welding bungs and adapting sensor mounts. Many suppliers also can put together a kit like tbitz, at the same time many don't. Some that don't offer kits have dealers who do install systems into specific cars.

Most other systems also have map examples, so in other words a base fuel value map.
SDS comes with a base map, they ask you about your app when you order, but also has a 3.2 and a 930 map examples on their website.
MS has many map examples on the MS forums.
A base map is just a rough fuel values program (think carb jetting) to get your tune in the ballpark.

Prices for systems range as cheap as $500 for south africa's Gotech MFI to well over tens of thousands for a pro tuned and installed MOTEC.

All systems will also require a wide band O2 meter, but that is a good idea even for tuning carbs.

[boosted79]

"I know what an ITB is, but what's an IR? "

IR = intake runner or individual runner

[Steam Driver]

As long as we're in the dictionary mode, what's an "SDS?"

[Tippy]

Simple Digital Systems, an EMS manufacturer.

[Mark Henry]

Some I mentioned.

http://sdsefi.com/
Gotech MFI X

Megasquirt started as a DIY kit
MegaSquirt | Premier DIY EFI Controller

You can buy Megasquirt as a DIY kit right up to pro built units
Suppliers - Megasquirt EFI

This guy has experiance doing complete MS system for the VW crowd he may have a 911 engine under his belt
The Dub Shop

There is also a very long list of other EFI manufactures TEC, Haltec, Weber, Autotronic, Motec just to name a few.

And may parts suppliers, PMO, Jenvey, goingsuperfast....again it's a big list.

Competition Engineering makes a complete 911 system I believe based on the TEC system.

[Mark Henry]

EMS = Engine Management Systems

Most systems do much more than just FI, they also can do ignition, boost control, fans, pumps, variable timing, data logging, etc., so they truly are EMS systems.
You can build a system to just do FI or very complex.

Lots of jargon to learn

[Lapkritis]

Vems is one of the best value ecus even price wise compared to megasquirt. The wideband controller on board makes the difference.

http://vems.us

[lvporschepilot]

What systems have the best auto tune functions? I hear Haltech and Electromotive had good software for this. It seems like 90% of the battle with EFI is just getting the thing to run right so it can be fine-tuned.

[Steam Driver]

That's a concern of mine too. I will be installing on a never before run engine so I don't need issues in making it run/get an initial tine during that phase.

[Mark Henry]

Originally Posted by Steam Driver

That's a concern of mine too. I will be installing on a never before run engine so I don't need issues in making it run/get an initial tine during that phase.

I don't want to seem like I'm harping on SDS, but I do have that system in my '67 bug and have tuned several other systems, so this is first hand knowledge.

The SDS will run right from first start and for break-in it has a simple rich/lean mixture knob like on an airplane. So using your wideband you simply turn the knob to a safe AFR like 12.5:1 during your break-in. Then you can use it to tune your system with the pendant as you drive.
I use an old ashtray as a mount and can program (tweak) the system, alone as I drive, in about an hour.

BTW many tech savvy dudes didn't like the old SDS because of it's simple pendant programming system that you couldn't hook a laptop into.
Pretty sure you can tune with both the pendant or laptop now with the new versions.

This is my first temporary SDS pendant ashtray mount from back in 2003. Knob on the right is the rich/lean mix knob.

[bleucamaro]

There are a ton of options out there, that's for sure. Many are very good, and they keep increasing the features to make cars more driveable. The biggest key is to find and use the one you are most comfortable with.

Holley, FAST, and AEM are top notch.

I went with Pantera EFI (Also branded by Weber Redline, and 034 Motorsports) for our 356 build. I chose this system because at the time, and maybe still today, they were the only ones that let me run full sequential injection without a cam sensor. The Pantera EFI uses a faster processor, which allows the crank sensor to be used to determine which stroke the engine is on. The tuning software, and documentation are more difficult to understand than with the Holley or FAST, but beyond those hurdles, it lets you do a ton of stuff. It will work with MAF or MAP, has comprehensive blending between alpha-N and speed/density tuning, and plays well with wide-band oxygen sensors.

[JmuRiz]

Originally Posted by mb911

Interesting.. So maybe a 3.2 intake and tbitz kit really is the way to go? Hmm

3.2 intake is a great way to go, IF you can find one for a good price. 930 and EFI conversion guys buy them up, as well as 3.2 guys keeping them for their rebuilds. If anyone has a line on one for cheap send mb911 and me the info (maybe we can both do a DIY thread on a 2.4 and 2.7 conversion).

[Steam Driver]

Has anyone ever used a 3.6 intake? I ask because I have a few of those laying around. What is the advantage of the 3.2?

I had planned on using the SC intake or ITB's, but am open to other options.

[Tippy]

Originally Posted by Steam Driver

Has anyone ever used a 3.6 intake? I ask because I have a few of those laying around. What is the advantage of the 3.2?

I had planned on using the SC intake or ITB's, but am open to other options.

Do you have plastic or aluminum 3.6 intakes lying around??

[Steam Driver]

All are plastic, unfortunately. The aluminum version us quite rare, having been used only the first year of the 3.6, and maybe not all of that. We have three, only two (and maybe one) are available.

[jpnovak]

The 3.6 intakes have better flow uniformity compared to the 3.2 intakes. Additionally there is a resonance chamber controlled by a flapper valve to change the VE characteristics as a function of rpm.

I would be interested in a plastic version if you are selling. I think Cory (Tippy) and I have the same idea here.

[Steam Driver]

I will need to consult with my partner on selling and a projected price.

What controls the flapper valve? (Since we were removing them for our manifold we never really paid much attention.). I'm guessing a combination of manifold pressure and electronics.). Since the electronics will be absent in my proposed use my thoughts were not to worry about that feature.

My main concern was port size. This would go on a 3.0 SC with the early boing port heads, which I believe (off the top of my head) are 38mm. How would that match up with that intake? (All this I would have discovered, but since we're talking about it . . .)