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Dropped woodruff key and stubborn head stud

So, I'm replacing my heads, head studs and cams in my 930.
After many failed atempts, I finally got my cam nuts off. But, in my excitement, I forgot to stuff a rag in the chain box openinig and as soon as I pulled off the thrust washer I heard a "ting tink" which to my dismay was the woodruff key falling down the open chain box into the case
The only attempt I've made so far is to spin the motor over on the stand with the hope that it would fall back out. No such luck. I'll pull out my inspection camera tomorrow to see if I can locate the little bugger. If so I should be able to nab it with a magnet.
I have no plans to split the case so, I'm hoping for some suggestions if I cant get it with a magnet.
The other issue I'm having is, I cant get my last head stud off. As far as I know there
the original Divlars. It seems like the studs were threaded to deep. There's just not enough to nut to grab onto. I noticed that my allen head had shoulders so, I ground it back. That helped, and I managed to loosen it a tiny bit but, no mas. Again, any constructive feedback is greatly appreciated.
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81 Pacific Blue 930 Euro coupe slicktop on a strict diet, Rarlyl8 headers, Blowzilla turbo, Tial waste gate, Full bay I/C, Home made center out exhaust, Leask WUR, MSD 6AL, PLX wideband
Wevo shifter, LSD. Next up, Cams, Heads and port work
Old 09-22-2016, 11:18 PM
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Have you removed sump plate to have a look?
Old 09-22-2016, 11:34 PM
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Mighty Meatlocker Turbo
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pkabush View Post
So, I'm replacing my . . . head studs . . . in my 930.
I own you!!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by pkabush View Post
After many failed atempts, I finally got my . . . nuts off.




Butt as far as the "constructive feedback" you're looking for, Mr. 70'sBush - are you saying that you can not get one of the studs out of the case, or one of the nuts off of the studs (kinky, I know! )? I ask, because if you are talking about removing the stud, you can do so with a small pipe wrench, vise grips, or the like (pipe wrench works great). If you are talking about the nut, you might have to try hammering in a "slightly larger" torx head bit into the hex - more grip than the allen bit, and the hammering will help to shock it free.



On the missing woodruf key - do you have a magnet like this? They are most excellent for fishing into difficult to reach spots --->

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000H5QRV4/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o06_s01?ie=UTF8&psc=1
Old 09-22-2016, 11:40 PM
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Search and retrieval........

PK,

Remove the two (2) lower chain ramps in the crankcase. This will give you additional room for inspection. If you could crank the engine for a full revolution without any obstruction, the errant woodruff key could be sitting at the bottom of the crankcase (?). An inspection camera would be very useful in locating the woodruff for easy retrieval.

Do you have a picture of the problematic head stud? Is this one broken and have only a short section exposed? What tool are you using for the head stud extraction? Keep us posted. Thanks.

Tony
Old 09-22-2016, 11:50 PM
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If you remove the sump plate you should able easily get the key out (the needs to be right side up for this) with either a magnet or some with small hands/forearms should be able to reach it.

As for the studs there is a stud remover/installer tool for smooth studs that works great for this. I would give you the mfgr. And p/n but I won't have access to it until this evening.
Old 09-23-2016, 04:33 AM
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I think Rawknee hit what the OP's problem is with the stud. The barrel nut is threaded too far on to the stud and the OP's hex wrench is slipping out.
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Old 09-23-2016, 06:46 AM
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Originally Posted by snbush67 View Post
Have you removed sump plate to have a look?
Good idea. Thanks
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81 Pacific Blue 930 Euro coupe slicktop on a strict diet, Rarlyl8 headers, Blowzilla turbo, Tial waste gate, Full bay I/C, Home made center out exhaust, Leask WUR, MSD 6AL, PLX wideband
Wevo shifter, LSD. Next up, Cams, Heads and port work
Old 09-23-2016, 07:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rawknees'Turbo View Post
I own you!!!







Butt as far as the "constructive feedback" you're looking for, Mr. 70'sBush - are you saying that you can not get one of the studs out of the case, or one of the nuts off of the studs (kinky, I know! )? I ask, because if you are talking about removing the stud, you can do so with a small pipe wrench, vise grips, or the like (pipe wrench works great). If you are talking about the nut, you might have to try hammering in a "slightly larger" torx head bit into the hex - more grip than the allen bit, and the hammering will help to shock it free.



On the missing woodruf key - do you have a magnet like this? They are most excellent for fishing into difficult to reach spots --->

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000H5QRV4/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o06_s01?ie=UTF8&psc=1
Yep, I finally came to my senses. Even though my Divlars look fine (no corossion) I figured it just doesn't make sense to reuse them.
I also want to thank Mr. Soreknees for the tip on removing the cam bolts with a impact gun. Worked like a charm.
And thanks for the tips and the link. You da man.
I'll report back as soon as I get back from the shop.
Thanks guys. Most appreciated.
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81 Pacific Blue 930 Euro coupe slicktop on a strict diet, Rarlyl8 headers, Blowzilla turbo, Tial waste gate, Full bay I/C, Home made center out exhaust, Leask WUR, MSD 6AL, PLX wideband
Wevo shifter, LSD. Next up, Cams, Heads and port work
Old 09-23-2016, 07:54 AM
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pKABOOMbush, glad the air-impact worked for you (really is the best tool for most any job like that), and am more than happy to provide peer pressure whenever possible (speaking of which, have you decided on which headstuds? Several good options, buttofcourse - don't have a personal preference to crow about with regard to the top options, just curious about what you are going to go with).

I hope you find the woodruf key - I've driven myself nutz trying to locate similar things that have gone flying, so can relate for sure.
Old 09-23-2016, 07:40 PM
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The Woodruf key is probably right there at the bottom of the case right below where it fell in. There are raised castings which sort of separate that area from the rest of the sump, and they make it unlikely that (on a non-running motor) that the key has moved.

If the problem is that the head stud sticks too far up into the barrel nut that the Allen can't get enough purchase to apply the torque it appears this nut needs, there are a couple of things you can try before heroic measures:

1) Soak in a good penetrant. After a while, maybe use a punch to tap the head of the nut, hoping the agitation might let the penetrant penetrate deeper.

2) I have had good luck using punches and chisels to distort the top of the nut, making it hard to insert the Allen. When you have distorted all around the six sides, insert the Allen and hammer on it to get it to force its way in. This should give a much better purchase. The barrel nut isn't hardened steel from what I can tell, so you can distort it, and the Allen can reform it some. Chances are your efforts to date have spread the upper surfaces some, and this may put them back to where they are useful, and raised the useful area up some.

3) In what seems a heroic measure, I've read of guys using a hacksaw to cut the stud where you can get to it. Or maybe it was a cutoff wheel?
Old 09-23-2016, 07:59 PM
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Hey 70's, Walt's "heroic measures" comment reminded me of a technique that I have used many times to remove internal hex fasteners that were damaged or hopelessly stuck - put largest sized bit in that you can get in there, use ratchet that you do not mind getting dinged up, take an air hammer and place your bit of choice (large, blunt one is best, butt sometimes available space makes a larger bit impossible to use) as close to the center of the ratchet head as possible (again, depending on space the air hammer bit might have to be angled some - better if straight down, but angled somewhat works, too), and use the air hammer to drive the ratchet and allen or torx bit downward while you are turning the ratchet counter clockwise by hand. This is easier to do if you have someone helping that can operate the air hammer with both hands while you turn the ratchet. The idea here is that the force of the air hammer drives the hex bit as deeply into the fastener as possible, and doesn't allow it to slip up and out while you are turning the ratchet. Also, the hammer action shocks the fastener and helps to get it moving. I can tell you from experience that this really works well.

I first tried this when I found several rocker arm shaft bolts that the hexes were basically rounded and a long time mechanic friend of mine suggested the air hammer method. I was scared of it at first, but man, it worked perfectly.

Last edited by Rawknees'Turbo; 09-24-2016 at 12:59 AM..
Old 09-24-2016, 12:54 AM
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Another trick is to wet the end of your hex socket and dip it into Comet powder cleaner and inserting it into the Allen nut or bolt. Powder takes up space and adds bite.
You may need to file or grind the very end of the socket down a bit to get rid of the edges rounded by use.
Like has been mentioned before here, using an imperial socket that is slightly larger and tapering it to the end then driving it into the Allen nut or bolt can be a successful plan during a losing battle.
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Old 09-24-2016, 06:33 AM
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Thanks for all the suggestions. I found some time on Sat. to work on the motor. I decided to leave the key alone for now and get busy on the head stud. After some frustrating attempts I reached for the drill. Here's some pix.


Unfortunately my drill slipped off the nut and chipped a cooling fin
But, on a positive note my cylinder walls look great.

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81 Pacific Blue 930 Euro coupe slicktop on a strict diet, Rarlyl8 headers, Blowzilla turbo, Tial waste gate, Full bay I/C, Home made center out exhaust, Leask WUR, MSD 6AL, PLX wideband
Wevo shifter, LSD. Next up, Cams, Heads and port work
Old 09-28-2016, 08:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rawknees'Turbo View Post
pKABOOMbush, glad the air-impact worked for you (really is the best tool for most any job like that), and am more than happy to provide peer pressure whenever possible (speaking of which, have you decided on which headstuds? Several good options, buttofcourse - don't have a personal preference to crow about with regard to the top options, just curious about what you are going to go with).

I hope you find the woodruf key - I've driven myself nutz trying to locate similar things that have gone flying, so can relate for sure.
The head studs are the only thing left to get. I'm leaning towards ARP. I'd like to support Henry and go with Supertechs but, money is tight. Not that ARPs are cheep but
I think they're around $150 less.
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81 Pacific Blue 930 Euro coupe slicktop on a strict diet, Rarlyl8 headers, Blowzilla turbo, Tial waste gate, Full bay I/C, Home made center out exhaust, Leask WUR, MSD 6AL, PLX wideband
Wevo shifter, LSD. Next up, Cams, Heads and port work
Old 09-28-2016, 08:45 AM
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Good job getting yer nut(z) off, Mr. 70's (not sure about those pretty purple gloves, though )!!!

Seems like the ARPs are a good choice; I know that there are a couple builders here that don't care for them, but the fact that Turbokraft seems to put them in all their builds (including the mega-horsepower monsters), says a lot.

Last edited by Rawknees'Turbo; 09-29-2016 at 11:05 AM..
Old 09-29-2016, 08:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rawknees'Turbo View Post
Good job getting yer nut(z) off, Mr. 70's (not sure about those pretty purple gloves, though )!!!

Seems like the ARPs are a good choice; I know that there are a couple builders here that don't car for them, but the fact that Turbokraft seems to put them in all their builds (including the mega-horsepower monsters), say a lot.
Don't dis the purple gloves. They go really well with my pink purse
Kinda what I was thinking on the ARPs as well. If I ever decide to go for big HP thats one less thing to replace.
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81 Pacific Blue 930 Euro coupe slicktop on a strict diet, Rarlyl8 headers, Blowzilla turbo, Tial waste gate, Full bay I/C, Home made center out exhaust, Leask WUR, MSD 6AL, PLX wideband
Wevo shifter, LSD. Next up, Cams, Heads and port work
Old 09-29-2016, 10:56 AM
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Hope the key is either in an inert location or accessible to remove. Things happen despite being "very careful".

I once fumbled a cam housing nut (stud at 10 o'clock) into an uncovered oil drain tube (doh). I was lucky the engine was 90 at the time and was able to peer through the tube and see where it landed. Was fortunate to fish it out with a makeshift button magnet and inspection mirror wand. Made my day.... until the next unplanned mishap.



Sherwood
Old 10-02-2016, 12:54 PM
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