Mahle vs JE

[Harpo]

IT has been said here on the forum Mahle is superior to JE. Any ideas why? or are we just talking about opinions? Also what about Carrello pistons?

Thanks

David

[lvporschepilot]

Mahle use 4032 which is less expansive allowing just a touch tighter wall clearance but this material is not as strong as 2618. JE use 2618. For power produced by 911 engines I don’t think it matters which material is used for strength. In a perfect world Mahle liners and Mahle pistons would always be run, but I see nothing wrong with Mahle liners with JE pistons

[Catorce]

Carillo doesn't make pistons - its sister company CP does. CP Pistons are better than Mahle or JE, are priced accordingly, and are used by Porsche and Manthey in motorsports applications.

[Steve@Rennsport]

Hi David,

Piston choices really depend on how the engine will be used.

For longevity, no 2618 or 4032 piston lasts as long as Mahle's proprietary alloy and thats why Porsche used those. Its my first choice for street cars where engines are expected to last 100K+ miles. You get what you pay for.

For competition engines where piston weight is critical due to operating RPM, a 2618 piston is an excellent choice for its light weight and strength (if its designed properly). CP makes our 2618 pistons and they are all made to our specs for proper fitment to assure ring sealing, less noise and blowby.

We also use custom Mahles made to our specification in large displacement engines.

Piston design is every bit as important as the choice of alloy and they are NOT all created equal. Many people make 2618/4032 pistons and some designs are not well suited for 911 engines.

Naturally, this is a greatly simplified answer to a very complex subject, but I hope this helps a little,

[Tippy]

That makes sense. Every piston I've pulled from other non-Porsche's always shows lots of skirt wear. My Mahle's show nothing! Even after 1.4 bar of boost for a long time now.

[Steve@Rennsport]

Originally Posted by Tippy

That makes sense. Every piston I've pulled from other non-Porsche's always shows lots of skirt wear. My Mahle's show nothing! Even after 1.4 bar of boost for a long time now.

Skirt wear can be caused by many things, one of which is a poor rod ratio.

2618 pistons tend to show accelerated wear in the ring lands and thats why they do not last anywhere near as long as the others.

[CBRacerX]

If you can get them, there are also Cosworth pistons. I've used those in race engines before with good results. They are not shown on the Cosworth website any longer.

And there are special Mahle pistons also, like these....

[faapgar]

Cosworth is a good piston.Just not in a Porsche engine.Look at the 69S Piston at 9.9 to 1.All Cosworths look the same.They make compression but by the time the air has to rise over the crown the motor is slow to get to redline.These motors are air pumps.Steve is right about the skirt wear being increased by incororrect rod angle.On my SS 2.8 i use a rod length that is 132mm on a 66mm stroke.Like 2 to 1.BMW has always had a longer ratio which leads to better midrange torque.Ciao Fred

[faapgar]

Back to the issue of Mahle. Best bang for the buck.A bunch of years ago I bought 4 sets of Rottmier Rsr Pistons from Charly Spira in La.that were 12.5 to 1.Use soft GOETZE cast iron rings and they are great.Ciao FRED

[Trackrash]

I find it interesting and annoying that Mahle sells pistons for American V8s but not air cooled Porsches? Unless of course you get the cylinder set.

I have a perfectly good set of cylinders so why can't I get Mahle pistons only?

[Steve@Rennsport]

Originally Posted by Trackrash

I find it interesting and annoying that Mahle sells pistons for American V8s but not air cooled Porsches? Unless of course you get the cylinder set.

I have a perfectly good set of cylinders so why can't I get Mahle pistons only?

In certain very specific applications, you can.

Mahle makes pistons here in NC, the cylinders all come from Germany.

[faapgar]

A friend of mine in Pa.bought a set of 8 forged pistons for his V8 Chevy on my recommendationThey were forged with the skirts coated with rings & pins for $695.00 shipped.We are getting screwed.They came direct from Mahle.

[Jeff Alton]

Had this conversation at SEMA with Mahle. They weren't overly excited about the Porsche market...

[Tippy]

Yeah, it's a demand thing

[lvporschepilot]

They're probably making min 300-400 sets of ANY old V8 pistons thus reducing cost on all levels. A run of say 50 sets of just 1 size Porsche piston, which is probably min order quantity to arrange tooling etc, will probably last them years. On the bright side, it's still less than a prototype set of Ferrari pistons, which is what every Ferrari order is.

[Trackrash]

Originally Posted by Tippy

Yeah, it's a demand thing

That and the fact that Mahle doesn't need to worry about out of spec cylinders, I guess.

JE has a variety Porsche pistons off the shelf. I guess Mahle has bigger fish to fry....

[Tippy]

Originally Posted by Trackrash

That and the fact that Mahle doesn't need to worry about out of spec cylinders, I guess.

JE has a variety Porsche pistons off the shelf. I guess Mahle has bigger fish to fry....

Begs to question, I wonder if JE would ever try Mahle's alloy's?

You'd have your cake and eat it too.

[manbridge 74]

I see Mahle still offers pistons for the not so common 968 Turbo(?) so somebody with bucks got them to produce a run. Or they are left overs from earlier offerings.

[Trackrash]

Originally Posted by Tippy

Begs to question, I wonder if JE would ever try Mahle's alloy's?

You'd have your cake and eat it too.

It wouldn't be hard for JE to figure out what Mahle's alloy is. I bet Mahle uses a variety of alloys. Some of their pistons are cast and some are forged. That alone would require different alloys.

In fact "The majority of Mahle forged PowerPak kits are made with 4032" http://www.mustangandfords.com/parts/mdmp-081008-mahle-piston-alloy-comparison/
And Mahle also uses 2618 at least for American motors.....

[lvporschepilot]

4032 is cheaper and is OE with most sports car manufacturers from Mahle, hence why they use 4032 more often. Most Formula 1 motors use the super exotic aluminum beryllium alloy, but Cosworth ran 2618 in their last F1 motors. It's my understand Mahle, JE, and others all have the same machine equipment which machines the ring lands anyway. I should add, as a rule 2618 is indeed stronger but expands more and is slightly softer than 4032.