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Red face Newbie in need of help. 3.2ss build has gone sideways!

A quick primer on this car: I bought it in late 2015 from a flipper who purchased it from a long time owner. It had a ton of receipts including evidence of a recent motor build. Machine work was performed and photos were included, as well as receipts from Pelican for all the usual suspects (hardware kit, gaskets, bearings, sealants, ect). While I don't know who performed the rebuild, the name on the receipts is a British car restoration shop owner with deep ties to the classic car industry. A little research proved that the targa was his wife's car for roughly 15 years. The sale to me included $30k in receipts and a clean California car so I pull the trigger. It's an awesome car that I've enjoyed immensely. I've been around them since grade school, but this is my first Porsche.






Here's where things take a turn. A few months back the motor developed a squeak. I was only a few blocks from my folks house and put the car up on Dad's lift. We pulled a valve cover to find that the #6 cylinder cam oil squirters were clogged and the cam was bone dry. Now this is a bummer, but not the end of the world. The car already had a #8 nose bearing leak and this would be my excuse to split the case and fix it correctly (although the Tom Amon trick I learned here worked pretty well!). And since we're in there, some 964 cams and an increase in displacement would make the effort worthwhile. So out it comes. Right away we notice a broken head stud, which seemed odd for a fresh rebuild. Also, Dad is responsible for the workbench idea; he says you can never have enough light when working on a motor!





So we're cruising along (following Wayne's engine rebuilding book for guidance) and we find a Craftsman magnetic pickup tool in the line just below the cooler. It appears the oil pump has been gnawing on it for some time. The tool is aluminum, and now there's aluminum throughout the entire motor. We get deeper into the teardown and it's been deposited on all the bearing surfaces. Also interesting is the use of different head studs throughout. It doesn't appear to be strategic...







So now that it's disassembled, I need some advice. Obviously this has escalated beyond the bottom end reseal I initially anticipated. Also, I don't trust any of the work that was done before so I'd like it all evaluated and repaired/replaced as necessary. I've heard good things about Ollie's, Competition Engineering and Supertec (already scored a set of Henry's head studs- they're as advertised). Who do you think would be best suited to help me work through this issue? I've gotten along great searching though old pelican threads for my previous projects but this is a bit of an anomaly. Any feedback would be most appreciated.
Old 12-25-2017, 07:38 AM
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Hi ,well i say what the heck ,who ever had rebuild the engine did a Mickey Mouse job.I do not quite get why he would leave those case studs when the new 993 were installed?
Also way too much of loctite 574 on the engine case.
That tool inside the engine was maybe the point of selling the 911.Who knows.Did you show it to the seller,the piece stuck in the oil pump?Might have to replace it.it shows some wear on the gears...
Overall it does not look that bad .Main thing is you take the engine apart and now you can do the job correctly....

btw nice job on the engine stand and lights;-)

Ivan

Last edited by proporsche; 12-26-2017 at 01:10 AM..
Old 12-25-2017, 08:57 AM
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+1 good the you split the engine and found all the hack job.

Triple check everything and take your time. To remove those studs, use allot of heat or send it out and have it done correctly and have the squirters replaced, case journals straightened if needed and hot bathed.

Damn, those bearings look horrible, again glad you split it.
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Old 12-25-2017, 11:29 AM
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Nice looking car, bummer about the engine issue - that's some serious debris throughout. Cleaning everything REALLY well is going to be an important part of the process. Hopefully your crank journals are OK... and you'll want to take apart that oil pump if it's been chewing on that metal rod for a while - kind of like leaving a surgical tool inside a patient that's been operated on! WTF?

I used Ollies for my 2.7L case work. Be prepared for a long wait, mine took 4-5 months... I'm just getting ready to start assembly now and I was doing the teardown almost exactly a year ago; but I'm super slow... I'd consider sending EVERYTHING out to get checked & refurbed. That's a lot of debris scattered thru the entire motor...

Where you send everything? I'd make some calls to the usual suspects listed throughout the many threads here as a starting point to ask about pricing and schedule. It's likely you'll establish a connection with at least one shop/person. It will cost more than you want it to and I'd also suggest going with the shop/person that you think you can have the best RELATIONSHIP with, as that's what will save you when you have questions and concerns etc...

Best of luck!
Tom
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Old 12-25-2017, 01:11 PM
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So much damage from an incompetent mechanic, what a shame. For sure the crank, the intermediate shaft and the cam spray bars will need the plugs removed and have the the metal debris flushed out. It sure looks like your Dad know what he is doing. So take your time and check and clean everything. Stock steel studs are fine. And for sure, there is never too much light when doing engine work, love that stand. Good luck!
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Old 12-25-2017, 01:32 PM
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Don't forget to remove and flush all the coolers... or replace them. You be right back where you started if you don't remove all the debris. I don't have experience with the shops you listed, but obviously they have a good reputation. I've used anchor Atlantic 2x for head work and been very satisfied.
Old 12-25-2017, 01:59 PM
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Bummer for sure. But on the positive side, you intervened before total disaster struck. That tool could have jammed the oil pump, oh my.

Cleaning will be a project. All the oil lines, coolers, case, crank, and OIL TANK will have to be surgically cleaned. Quite a job, but doable.

Weird that random 964 studs were used.

Good luck with your build.

Edit; will you be keeping that muffler? My experience is that those are too restrictive for a 3,0L. YMMV
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Old 12-25-2017, 03:20 PM
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Wow. I feel for you, that's nuts...

When was the rebuild, how long ago?

So someone dropped a tool in the oil tank I presume, and it got sucked into the oil pump pressure side intake?! Did you have any oil pressure???

A lot of guys on this board, myself included, rebuild their own motors. I am paranoid and am quadruple checking everything, to make sure it's done right. Whoever rebuilt that motor really cut some big corners...

Good luck, keep us all posted. Several of us in the Milwaukee area are rebuilding right now...

Bo
Old 12-25-2017, 04:20 PM
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Further thought.... who did your last oil change? My guess is that the oil dipstick fell into the tank, and someone tried to fish it out with that magnetic tool and it fell off...

That tool wasn't floating in the tank for the last 5 years... I suspect it was dropped in pretty recently...

The motor failing is due to the tool being dropped in there. The rest of the motor rebuild quality issues are secondary...

You didn't go to Jiffy Lube or something like that?

Bo
Old 12-26-2017, 05:29 AM
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As sad as it is to see the motor rebuild was misrepresented, it has created the opportunity for you to now make sure it is all correctly done and to your specifications to give you a terrific motor for years to come. Cheers.
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Old 12-26-2017, 06:45 AM
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Thank you for the replies, I appreciate all of the tips and well wishes.

Bo- you make a good point about the tank. While we've done all the maintenance since I purchased it, one thing I thought was strange was that the magnetic portion of the tool was missing. You think the tool sat submerged in the tank until the glue holding the magnet to the tool let go and the aluminum portion flowed downstream to the pump? Just for grins, I'll pull the tank and take a peak with a borescope to see if the magnet is still hanging around.
Old 12-26-2017, 07:02 AM
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I think Bo's magnet in the oil tank theory could be correct. Who knows what the flipper (or some errant mechanic along the way) did. Definitely give that tank (and your oil feed line!) a good going through to make sure you don't experience this problem again with the any remaining portion of that tool that might still be in there ...
Old 12-26-2017, 07:39 AM
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[QUOTE=Tom '74 911;9861081 Cleaning everything REALLY well is going to be an important part of the process.
Best of luck!
Tom[/QUOTE]

Absolutely!!! When you find foreign material inside your engine... this means you will need to professionally clean your oil galleys, oil pump, oil cooler, and even all your oil lines, front mount oil cooler, tank, and anything else that has oil flow through it.
You don't want ANY residual contaminants left over that could cause an issue later on down the road.
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Old 12-29-2017, 08:51 AM
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The oil filter did a pretty great job considering the circumstances.







Also, the oil ring on every piston was cracked/broken. Is this normal?


Old 12-29-2017, 09:28 AM
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Aren`t you glad you took it apart..these rings usually do not break ,mainly on assembly but in your case no oil will do this trick...take your time and enjoy the work, it will not be that bad...
Ivan
Old 12-30-2017, 03:17 AM
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If the oil filtration system on your 3.2 is the same as on the 964 the oil is filtered AFTER its gone through the engine oil galleries which is a bit of a design flaw IMO, if that's the case all those bits of aluminium have already been through the oil galleries, bearings, cam tower, spray bars etc.
You're going to have to be very thorough in cleaning everything and making sure there's nothing left in any of the galleries, cam spray bars etc, personally I'd ditch the cooler and fit a new one, same with the oil tank unless you can be completely sure it's been 100% flushed.

Cracking garage BTW
Old 12-30-2017, 12:33 PM
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That just plain sucks! Im a bit confused with the head studs too. Looks like they added the 993 turbo studs as they are fully threaded. Im sure you can sell those off. As for mixing them with what looks like 993 steel studs boggles my mind. As for the tearing down and flushing I think youll be pulling all the plugs. Id remove the piston squirters too and replace. The plugs in the cam towers can be pulled easily enough to flush the spray bars. Good luck with the rebuild! Im sure this will be a PSA to everyone reading about attention to details.
Old 12-30-2017, 07:15 PM
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Jeez, what a mess!

With that said, you did yourself a huge favor by hearing a noise and investigating promptly. If that engine had been run much longer, there undoubtedly would have been a catastrophic failure, and you'd be throwing away half your engine! Well done in that regard, sir.
Old 12-31-2017, 05:07 AM
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Drill your squirters out as well. They are capable of retaining fine particulates. Either replace them with stock or a set of my rebuildable ones. Either way, get rid of the stock squirters and flush out those passages.

Engines like these are why I make squirters.....
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Old 12-31-2017, 09:04 AM
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Yikes!

If it were me, I'd be notifying the previous owner and any shops that you can track down that worked on this thing and show them what a mess you've got on your hands - not for restitution, but so that they hopefully learn something and never do this again.

Pacific Oil Cooler Services can ultrasonically clean and inspect your coolers and oil tank.

What a shame. Hopefully pistons/cylinders can be saved and there is no major scoring on any of the crank surfaces.
Old 12-31-2017, 11:56 AM
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