2002 R1100S Turn Signal Problem

b52bombardier1 · 08-10-2008, 11:28 AM

Hello,

I have a blinker / turn signal problem on my 2002 R1100S. I can start the left or right turn signal to begin blinking but after the bike is warmed up (maybe 10 minutes), randomly, after 10-40 seconds, it will simply stop blinking. It does not matter whether it is left or right or whether I am sitting still or in a turn, after a short length of time it will simply stop blinking. When it stops blinking, it stops with the turn signal lamp off. I can restart the turn signal immediately and it will go for another 10-40 seconds or so.

I initially thought I might be doing the cancelling subconsciously with my thumb but I have ruled that out. And fortunately, I have a 2004 R1150RT that I can change the turn signal/hazard flasher relay out with. It was not easy to get at inside the "S" but the relay from the RT did not fix things in the 1100S. The hazard flashers seem to work OK and do not "self cancel". The relay is listed as a $124 part in the dealer computer so I am very happy, I think, to know that the relay is probably not the cause. But I am not happy to know that the analysis and troubleshooting gets more complicated from here on.

The bike has 8200 miles on it and I have had it about four months with zero problems up to now. Anybody seen this before? Would you suggest switches as the problem? Wiring harness? Or maybe a bad ground?

Many thanks,
Rick

markjenn · 08-10-2008, 12:42 PM

Is the 10-40 seconds consistent? If so, I'd hypothesize that perhaps your problem is that your signals are self-canceling by expiration of the time constraint while the distance constraint is wrongly being indicated by the system as always satisfied. How this translates to component failure, I have no idea as the system is a "black box" to me.

- Mark

George_in_KG · 08-10-2008, 01:01 PM

Is the unit you swapped just a relay or does it have the signal cancelling electronics? A random cancellation of the turn signal would imply a bad ground/short that is simulating the cancellation button on hte right grip. A consistent 10 seconds to cancellation sounds like a bad module. Your parts swap would imply that it isn't the latter.

My next step would be to inspect the wiring around the cancellation button.

Moybin · 08-10-2008, 01:19 PM

Since BMW uses dedicated ground returns instead of the frame you can isolate the problem to the front or back lights by "pulling the plug" on either the front or the rear connector and seeing if it has any effect on the problem. With only 1 bulb in the left and right circuit it will probably flash faster.

R111S · R111S's Garage

Mine self-cancel because they are desiged to do that and yours do to...what am I missing here? Is it suddeny a shorter self-cancelation time than normal?

You say you've had it 4-months now and it's an '02 model with 8.2k miles...that's not much riding by the previous owner. Are we talking about an old orignial Battery here. Maybe clean the Battery posts too while you look after the Grounding points as Moybin suggested.

b52bombardier1 · 08-10-2008, 07:13 PM

Hello,

Yes, I should have read the book. Self cancelling!! My 04 RT does not have this feature and it did not occur to me that an older bike would have this feature. I guess it just cancels a little too fast for me which surprised me a little from my other bike and I immediately thought "electronic failure". My biggest shock is how long it took me to notice. Guess I am getting old and should pay better attention.

Sorry for the trouble and I do appreciate the assistance. I will go back to my normally quiet self now . . .

Rick

markjenn · 08-10-2008, 08:04 PM

You mentioned that the turn signals quit while "sitting still". If this is the case, then you have some problem as the self-canceling feature has both a timeout constraint and a distance constraint - both must be exceeded for the signals to cancel. So if you're sitting at a light, they should never self-cancel since you'll never reach the distance constraint.

Some riders do complain that they are somewhat too aggressive on the time constraint - that if you're moving at speed such that the time constraint governs, then they don't stay on quite long enough. I find they work pretty well. It is important to realize that they're a safety backup system for when you forget to cancel, not a substitute for manual canceling.

- Mark

netaron · 08-10-2008, 10:23 PM

Hi,

I had a similar experience but was only happening to one side; it was due to a bad bulb, have you replaced your turn signal bulbs?

peterz · 08-11-2008, 09:25 PM

If they self cancel after not moving, perhaps there is a Kisan Signal minder fitted in place of the stock turn signal relay? Great device BTW.

http://www.kisantech.com/view_product.php?product=SM-5

b52bombardier1 · 08-12-2008, 07:00 PM

Hello,

The bike does have a Kisan headlight and tail light modulator but they should not affect the turn signals. And yes, great devices although I do know I do not have the Kisan turn signal canceler because it is a stock 2005 R1150RT turn signal relay that went into the relay box to see if it was a relay that caused the original problem. That swap made no difference.

Since BMW put a self canceling feature into this bike, where is the time constraint managed from? The distance constraint would most likely be from the main odometer but maybe not necessarily. Where is the brain for the self canceling feature - I cannot find it in the bike's books, Haynes manual or BMW Service/repair manual.

Many thanks to all of you for the help and I am certainly learning more about my bike.

Rick

markjenn · 08-14-2008, 01:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by b52bombardier1

Since BMW put a self canceling feature into this bike, where is the time constraint managed from? The distance constraint would most likely be from the main odometer but maybe not necessarily.

I had always assumed that the turn-signal canceling feature was just another subroutine in the bike's ECU(s?), using data from the internal real-time clock and the wheel rotation sensor. But I really don't know.

I've seen the question asked a few times about how to adjust either constraint and never seen anyone come up with anything.

- Mark

bikerfish1100 · 08-16-2008, 04:03 AM

BMW has used self-cancelling signals since the first K100 in 1985, nothing new. Had a distance cancellation, a time cancellation, and a neutral and clutch-lever-in over-ride. Why they never installed it on the R11XXRT series is a mystery, but my K75C, K75S and K11RS all had it.

wood-d · 08-16-2008, 04:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by peterz

If they self cancel after not moving, perhaps there is a Kisan Signal minder fitted in place of the stock turn signal relay? Great device BTW.

http://www.kisantech.com/view_product.php?product=SM-5

+1 on the Kisan. great product

b52bombardier1 · 08-17-2008, 06:22 PM

Hello,

A buddy of mine here in town mentioned that he thinks the distance constraint is 600 feet. He is an Adventure rider and thinks he remembers seeing this number over on the Advrider.com web site.

This reference to 600 feet certainly matches up well to my calibrated eyeball estimates of road distance passage to make it self cancel. Now I understand why this bothers me so much on long freeway on and offramps. You can easily chew through 600 feet on these longer highway ramps these days and then it cancels right when you need to be merging.

Now I just need to figure out the time constraint part and maybe I will finally be able to make sense of it all. This really should be in the owners manual but I missed it in the book the fact that I even had self cancelling signals so I guess that is why they do not bother to put in too many details.

Rick

bikerfish1100 · 08-17-2008, 06:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by b52bombardier1

Hello,

Now I understand why this bothers me so much on long freeway on and offramps. You can easily chew through 600 feet on these longer highway ramps these days and then it cancels right when you need to be merging.

Rick

I dunno man, i just don't get that one. i know that legally you have to signal, but let's think about this for just a short little moment. Upon entering the highway- WHAT ARE YOUR CHOICES OTHER THAN TO GO LEFT?!?! If you keep going straight you'll be in the shoulder, and if you go right, you're in the freaking weeds!
It's just like watching NASCAR at a sports bar, dude- "GO LEFT, GO LEFT!" "****, ALL THEY EVER DO IS GO LEFT!"

red_alert · 08-18-2008, 04:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by b52bombardier1

Hello,

I have a blinker / turn signal problem on my 2002 R1100S. I can start the left or right turn signal to begin blinking but after the bike is warmed up (maybe 10 minutes), randomly, after 10-40 seconds, it will simply stop blinking. It does not matter whether it is left or right or whether I am sitting still or in a turn, after a short length of time it will simply stop blinking. When it stops blinking, it stops with the turn signal lamp off. I can restart the turn signal immediately and it will go for another 10-40 seconds or so.

I initially thought I might be doing the cancelling subconsciously with my thumb but I have ruled that out. And fortunately, I have a 2004 R1150RT that I can change the turn signal/hazard flasher relay out with. It was not easy to get at inside the "S" but the relay from the RT did not fix things in the 1100S. The hazard flashers seem to work OK and do not "self cancel". The relay is listed as a $124 part in the dealer computer so I am very happy, I think, to know that the relay is probably not the cause. But I am not happy to know that the analysis and troubleshooting gets more complicated from here on.

The bike has 8200 miles on it and I have had it about four months with zero problems up to now. Anybody seen this before? Would you suggest switches as the problem? Wiring harness? Or maybe a bad ground?

Many thanks,
Rick

Yap.. its self canceling, not a maulfunction