WSB 09 The Island, BMW, Corser and Xaus

[Jonas The Swede]

Read this quote on a swedish motorcycle forum, but haven't got a source, so it might be made up!

I found it pretty interesting though, we've talked about it before, so anyone heard of this statement?

The supposed statement in quetion is made by Ducati, more specifically Tardozzi.

The person on the forum claims that he accuses Aprilia and BMW to spend TOO much money on their SBK project and that their bikes are too much of a prototype, not being made in the true SBK spirit.

He [is supposed to have] said that BMW and Aprilia are on the very limit and they need to take a step back (with the rules).

The person on the forum ends with asking: When will Ducati ask for 200cc more?

I'm ambivalent whether to believe this to be true or not. Have anyone read something about this?
I know you will comment, so let's fire away!

/J

[roger albert]

Originally Posted by Dr. Curve View Post
BMW running in the TOP TEN.............who would have ever dreamed it!

What kind of moronic cheerleading is that? A top ten from a field of 9 or 10 is not particularly impressive.

What's next curve "Would never have dreamed that I'd see BMW holding the top german manufactured superbike spot"

or

"#1 among roundel equipped racebikes" !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Woot!

(No, I'm not claiming the good Dr. "woots", that'd be kinda low)

[bradzdotcom]

Originally Posted by Jonas The Swede

He [is supposed to have] said that BMW and Aprilia are on the very limit and they need to take a step back (with the rules)
/J

if bmw and aprilia are "on the limit" it might mean that they're right up to the very edge of the interpretation of the rules.
which also means they're not cheating...
....which means they probably can't podium, except at a fluke event.

[Dr. Curve]

I love it! A top twenty finish is in the bag.........with the possibility of a top five finish if all goes well. Bravo BMW in your first year efforts. Fork it if you haf to, and then whip it with a chain........just so the bike stays in the hunt. Can't wait to ride one.

[Jonas The Swede]

Originally Posted by roger albert

A top ten from a field of 9 or 10 is not particularly impressive.

I think there were more than ten bikes testing last week!

They probably just didn't care to report the bikes after 10:th place!

For all I know all the bikes were welcome to test this week at PI, and as far as I know they all did!

Also, Troy didn't even finish his testing due to the famous bird incidence! Troy said in an interview that they had more testing to do that day, but that the doctors told him to rest for the rest of the week.
/J

[Jonas The Swede]

Originally Posted by bradzdotcom

if bmw and aprilia are "on the limit" it might mean that they're right up to the very edge of the interpretation of the rules.
which also means they're not cheating...
....which means they probably can't podium, except at a fluke event.

How do you get "...probably can't podium..." from they being on the limit of the rules?
I understand it as they are very competitive due to being within the rules, but on the very edge.
/J

[signit98]

...they are not cheating... hence their chance of being on the podium are limited...

[roger albert]

I think there were more than ten bikes testing last week!

No. Some of us do our homework before making these pronouncements.
The PI testing was done on two batches, non concurrently.

BMW dev still positive, and still, surprisingly, ahead of the much more experienced Aprilia factory effort. Good to see them doing so well.

> I love it! A top twenty finish is in the bag

Way to go out on a limb there. Many races don't have 20 finishers, and Corser is a quick, non-crasher, so I agree.

[bradzdotcom]

Originally Posted by signit98

...they are not cheating... hence their chance of being on the podium are limited...

exactly what i meant.
you can call it cheating, you can call it creative interpretation, you can call it literal engineering, you can call it a cab.
bigger the checkbook, the more creative the product.

i don't always know where to "draw the line" until i step over it first.

what i learned about ama tech inspection on my 1st summer series vacation:

• you can't run titanium axles.
• if Butch Lee's official ama magnet won't stick to the axle, it doesn't pass tech.
• if you come back with your titanium axle, upon which you have glued a big metal washer, thus the magnet sticks, Butch still won't let you pass tech, but will be irritated.
• if you come back next week with axles that have two short metal ends, but a threaded "center spacer" made of titanium, the magnet will stick, Butch will let you through tech, but only after you argue the vague definition of axle (presumption it being one piece, my interpretation being it isn't defined).
• if the magnet hits, you must aquit. it's right there in the rules.

whole thing was a silly waste of time, didn't help anyway.

was that cheating? interpretation? sideways engineering?
if i had made the axle originally with two steel caps and a long titanium center section, they would have never known.
and they would have never changed the rules next season to say "solid axle".

it's a game. let bmw dip the toe in the pond, get a grasp of where they are, and then start cat & mouse.

maybe the so-called quote could also be a hint to the bmw & aprilla guys to "cool it" and not be so blatant about cutting corners in the rules.

sometimes it's okay to snag an occasional apple off the neighbor's tree on the way to school, but show up one afternoon with buddies and baskets, and somebody's gonna get upset.

[Jonas The Swede]

Originally Posted by roger albert

No. Some of us do our homework before making these pronouncements.
The PI testing was done on two batches, non concurrently.

Yes sir!
But there was a test earlier in the week, i think wednesday!?
Or am I mistaken?
I mean biaggi did his run at that time, and if you add the bikes that ran in the first bunch (wednesday) with the second bunch (saturday) I think we will get more than ten bikes. And if you add all these bikes together you will still have BMW in the top ten, I think corser was on seventh if I remember correctly!?

These times are from wednesday and saturday. They finished testing on sunday, but corser didn't run due to his arm (bird incident).
Still, I count 18 bikes in total LAST WEEK!

So, dear sir... don't claim I didn't do my homework!

Wednesday:
Superbike: 1. Biaggi (Aprilia) 1'32"59 (71 laps); 2. Laconi (Ducati) 1'32"60 (62); 3. Nakano (Aprilia) 1'32"72 (68); 4. Parkes (Kawasaki) 1'32"90 (70); 5. Haslam (Honda) 1'33"20 (65); 6. Hill (Honda) 1'33"30 (55); 7. Rolfo (Honda) 1'33"50 (95); 8. Tamada (Kawasaki) 1'33"90 (80).

Saturday:
1. Neukirchner (Suzuki) 1'32"5; 2. Fabrizio (Ducati) 1'32"7; 3. Kagayama (Suzuki) 1'32"7; 4. Rea (Honda) 1'32"9; 5. Haga (Ducati) 1'33"0; 6. Sykes (Yamaha) 1'33"2; 7. Spies (Yamaha) 1'33"3; 8. Checa (Honda) 1'33"3; 9. Corser (BMW) 1'33"8; 10. Kiyonari (Honda) 1'34"0; 11. Xaus (BMW) 1'34"3.

[signit98]

Well, Jonas... you are assuming best case scenario, all things being equal... how often does that happen?

Track conditions, temperature, wind, humidity and the food/water/shoeshine/shave/lotion/cuticle situation could have changed quite a bit from wednesday to saturday...

All this has NO value whatsoever... the real picture will emerge with the first race... THEN we will get a bit of an idea... about 1/2 way through the season it will become quite clear who's in the running and who is not...

[roger albert]

Well said and explained. Lot's of rules stuff, which even big experienced guys get caught out on. And not just on the bike, but grid/restart/partial lap kind of stuff too. I picked up two positions that way this week when I knew that we can now re-tech and continue in a mini sprint race. I only lost a tiny fraction of a lap, and thus went from 2nd, to 6th, and back to 4th.
Had I not read the new rules just the night before (due to insomnia) I'd have probably just kept going for fun, or pulled in and gave up.

Lot's of winning races is in knowing and using/abusing the rules.

[Jonas The Swede]

Originally Posted by signit98

Well, Jonas... you are assuming best case scenario, all things being equal... how often does that happen?

All this has NO value whatsoever... the real picture will emerge with the first race... THEN we will get a bit of an idea... about 1/2 way through the season it will become quite clear who's in the running and who is not...

Yes! I agree.. I've been saying the same thing a few posts back. I was only saying there were more than ten bikes in the total test that took place last week!

Someone said it wasn't impressive to come top ten if there only were ten bikes running. But I state there were more than ten bikes testing last week and that, even though it means jack ****, BMW did finish top ten! That's all! ;-)
Gee I need to go to bed, I'm tired....
/J

[Steve Carlton]

BMW will finish 1st and 2nd. I guarantee it.

[Jonas The Swede]

Originally Posted by Steve Carlton

BMW will finish 1st and 2nd. I guarantee it.

Hey, even though you have "thread killer" right by your name, you're not really doing... that!

Good spirit though, that's the way! good on ya!
/J

[BMathison]

You also have to account for the fact that this is practice. Unless things have changed from my days on the track, you typically don't show all your cards before the big game. You are out there for the purpose of bike setup and yes, practice. You will pull time in sections to tell you where you stand. There is no need to string together a 100% lap until qualifying.

(Hope that makes sense. I am on a wee bit of pain meds right now.)

[bradzdotcom]

Originally Posted by roger albert

Lot's of winning races is in knowing and using/abusing the rules.

kenny clark was a master. probably still is.
i see him on occasion at the grocery store. still lives on his boat.

steve~put down the spray paint can, drop the rag, go wash your face.

[Dr. Curve]

While that true Ralf, the forward momentum of a race effort is psychology reinforced with a finish in the top ten, and/or a podium finish. This is why this first race out is of such importance to BMW. They have already experimented quite a bit, as have their riders. Foremost is that both bikes finish and that one gets in the top ten. Anything beyond that is icing on the cake. Its only been a few years since people were telling us diehards that BMW would NEVER be able to compete on a "real track." They were wrong then and they are wrong now. While we all realize that BMW has a lot to learn, that can only occur in actual race time, lets rest assured that BMW is way ready to surprise the regular dogs as they all hunt for the fox at the finish line. No telling how much RWHP they have dialed into Corser's bike.

[Guest24]

Jonas, this is one of the toughest crews on the prospects of any BME S1K success you'll find. Everyone has the answers; but, none sits in the room where the decisions are made. S1K is a complete unknown for most of us on the outside and BMW isn't talking very much. They've got two proven drivers; but, you couldn't fuel a pissants tricycle on the technical information they give out. PI will be the first true test of the entire BMW effort--if they go all out. The final goal is to use the S1K to sell La Machine in all of it's detuned glory. I would like for this venture to be an unqualified success for the Roundel.

[roger albert]

Sorry, but if you know racing, comparing times from two different days in fields this close means nothing. Apples to Oranges. It may have been homework, but it was wrong homework. No cut intended. It's just the way it is.