What are your thoughts on gm killing off the cruze and impala .

[Black968]

Unfortunately GM doesn't do anything really well anymore. Their products are average at best, but way overpriced by 5-10G per vehicle. Another issue with GM is they will not honor some of their past warranty/recall work. I had a 3.6 TC blow in a Buick Enclave under an extended warranty and they only partially covered the cost. That was the straw for me. Good riddance.

[wdfifteen]

Originally Posted by cabmando

Not trying to bring politics into this but the guy says what I'm sure a lot of people are thinking when they read about the plant closures. I have to admit when I heard about the plant closings what he tweeted pretty much summed up my thoughts.

Pretty much what i thought in 2003 and 2009 when companies used tax cuts and bailout money to pay off debt instead of invest in new jobs. We got ten good years and our money back from bailing out GM. Not a bad deal IMHO.

[GWN7]

Vehicle lines get discontinued all the time. Not selling well they get axed. GM's sales are down 5% yet it's interesting to note that the product lines (and parts) that are being made in the plants that are being closed that are profitable (Silverado in Oshawa e.g.) are also being made in the plants in Mexico where the workers get paid a lot less than the plant workers that will have no jobs next year.

I've owned GM products all my life. My dad owned them too. Next vehicle more than likely won't be because of the way GM treats people.

[Alan A]

Originally Posted by wdfifteen

Pretty much what i thought in 2003 and 2009 when companies used tax cuts and bailout money to pay off debt instead of invest in new jobs. We got ten good years and our money back from bailing out GM. Not a bad deal IMHO.

Unless you had GM stock.
F. Them. Hope they go under for real this time.

I for one am sad to see it happen, for the sake of the folks who work there, but I think it's the smart move strategically. It's change or die time--again--for Detroit, but this time the game has changed. More and more, cars are receding from the consciousness of today's consumers. To the next generation, cars will not be devices so much as mobility apps on their smartphones, of which cars will merely be an element.

Fewer and fewer kids are interested in cars. Part of that is because modern cars are so complex that they are daunting, and part of that is that there is less need for a car than ever at the age when most of us fell in love with them. Want to hang with friends? Just have a text conversation. Want to get a pizza? There's an app for that. Go shopping? Amazon! Need a degree? Get it online! Hate the commute? Work from home! There is less need than ever to actually leave the house these days to do anything. So kids no longer view cars as the path to freedom and independence that most of us did.

Cars aren't the future. Not sure what is, but I'll keep living in the past, automotively speaking.

[Porsche-O-Phile]

Originally Posted by javadog

We do not need self driving cars.

I disagree with this.

People are proving to be too stupid to drive. Our transportation infrastructure has become clogged with the incompetent and it is choking our economy. The last time I was on the mainland I was shocked to see how many more giant semis and double semis were on the highways than I’d remembered. That’s probably the future as we shift to an online / delivery consumer economy. We need to get private vehicles off the roads so the highways can have capacity for more trucks apparently.

I will welcome the ability to sit in the back of a self-driving car and have a nap or read a book rather than worry about which aggro, road raging, impatient idiot is going to slam into me today or having to deal with crushing traffic jams (becoming all too commonplace in / around major cities).

I used to like driving and see it as freedom. Now it’s a burden and a chore and it’s anything but freedom. To many costs, too many dumb laws and ticky-tack restrictions, too many ways to get ripped off, too much risk. I’m ok with it. I can walk or take an Uber or a train or an autonomous vehicle. I won’t miss having to pay out the nose for the “privilege” of being able to own a depreciating “asset” that everyone else (banks, insurers, manufacturers, dealers, repairers, etc.) makes money off of other than me.

As far as GM goes I could care less what they do or what happens to them. As far as I’m concerned they died in 2008 and I’d never even consider giving them a dime, nor driving any of their brands other than as a rental if there were no other choices.

[cabmandone]

Originally Posted by wdfifteen

Pretty much what i thought in 2003 and 2009 when companies used tax cuts and bailout money to pay off debt instead of invest in new jobs. We got ten good years and our money back from bailing out GM. Not a bad deal IMHO.

Yeah... we lost money on "old GM" and we lost money on "new GM" when the stock were sold. We lost money... and we lost taxpayer money. With the tax cuts, businesses and people keep more of the money they earn.
We as taxpayers lost money on a private business because of poor business decisions by that private business. That's a bad deal IMO

It all boils down to profitability, I get that. The sedans aren't as profitable so they're going to focus on what is more profitable. The problem will come when gas goes up and the SUV's stop selling and BAM we're bailing their sorry asses out again.

[Tervuren]

Originally Posted by Alan A

Unless you had GM stock.
F. Them. Hope they go under for real this time.

You mean GM bonds?

[Tervuren]

Originally Posted by cabmando

Yeah... we lost money on "old GM" and we lost money on "new GM" when the stock were sold. We lost money... and we lost taxpayer money. With the tax cuts, businesses and people keep more of the money they earn.
We as taxpayers lost money on a private business because of poor business decisions by that private business. That's a bad deal IMO

It all boils down to profitability, I get that. The sedans aren't as profitable so they're going to focus on what is more profitable. The problem will come when gas goes up and the SUV's stop selling and BAM we're bailing their sorry asses out again.

Have you compared the MPG of what is being discontinued to what is being kept?

The Sedan is primarily a more expensive to manufacture body that offers less cargo/interior space.

This is perhaps in part because of crash protection efforts raising the sides of passengers cars.

[KFC911]

Originally Posted by cabmando

Yeah... we lost money on "old GM" and we lost money on "new GM" when the stock were sold. We lost money... and we lost taxpayer money. With the tax cuts, businesses and people keep more of the money they earn.
We as taxpayers lost money on a private business because of poor business decisions by that private business. That's a bad deal IMO

It all boils down to profitability, I get that. The sedans aren't as profitable so they're going to focus on what is more profitable. The problem will come when gas goes up and the SUV's stop selling and BAM we're bailing their sorry asses out again.

We've subsidized everybody...bar none imo. We've lived "beyond our means" on personal, corporate, and government levels....via debt.

How many of the new 50k trucks are on cheap credit....and financed for years ?

[jcommin]

Originally Posted by madcorgi

I for one am sad to see it happen, for the sake of the folks who work there, but I think it's the smart move strategically. It's change or die time--again--for Detroit, but this time the game has changed. More and more, cars are receding from the consciousness of today's consumers. To the next generation, cars will not be devices so much as mobility apps on their smartphones, of which cars will merely be an element.

Fewer and fewer kids are interested in cars. Part of that is because modern cars are so complex that they are daunting, and part of that is that there is less need for a car than ever at the age when most of us fell in love with them. Want to hang with friends? Just have a text conversation. Want to get a pizza? There's an app for that. Go shopping? Amazon! Need a degree? Get it online! Hate the commute? Work from home! There is less need than ever to actually leave the house these days to do anything. So kids no longer view cars as the path to freedom and independence that most of us did.

Cars aren't the future. Not sure what is, but I'll keep living in the past, automotively speaking.

It is not only the plants but every company,service and businesses that are affected by a plant closure. Include state and local governments, communities, a loss of local tax dollars - the list is endless.

However, time marches on. The horse and buggy gave way to the car. The expansion of electricity didn't shut down the petroleum industry because the demand for kerosene dropped. Prop engines gave way to jets.

The consumption of new car purchases is not growing proportional to the USA population. You market and make products based on demand. Don't think for one moment folks at Toyota, Honda, etc aren't looking at what Ford, Chrysler and GM are doing - all of them will be looking at the passenger car mix.

[cabmandone]

Originally Posted by Tervuren

Have you compared the MPG of what is being discontinued to what is being kept?

The Sedan is primarily a more expensive to manufacture body that offers less cargo/interior space.

This is perhaps in part because of crash protection efforts raising the sides of passengers cars.

I have never personally driven a conventional SUV that gets 35-40 mpg. I have driven several sedans that cruise in that range.
If the Impala is truly only getting 30 on the highway, GM has gone backwards. My parents used to drive a Buick that would do mid 30's on the Highway. My dad used to brag that the faster he went, the better the mileage got. The crazy thing was, to a point he was right.

[flatbutt]

Originally Posted by Rtrorkt

I remember a friend who bought a new Vega in the day made in Lordstown. He had a persistent rattle in the car. Finally the dealership pulled the door card to find a coke bottle with a note that said in effect, “how long did it take you bozos to find the bottle?”

I bought one in '71 and it only took 30,000 miles for the aluminum block to crack. Chevy wouldn't warranty the repair. I sold it with full disclosure, bought my first Toyota pick up and never looked back.

[cabmandone]

My brother hit a deer in a Vega. The deer won easily.

[Tervuren]

Originally Posted by cabmando

I have never personally driven a conventional SUV that gets 35-40 mpg. I have driven several sedans that cruise in that range.
If the Impala is truly only getting 30 on the highway, GM has gone backwards. My parents used to drive a Buick that would do mid 30's on the Highway. My dad used to brag that the faster he went, the better the mileage got. The crazy thing was, to a point he was right.

Depends on how it is being driven.

Cross country the Impala was indeed about 28-30MPG.

EPA 22MPG - 25MPG

That is comparable to the smallest of SUVs in EPA rating.

The construction, design, and regulation of cars has changed significantly.

Most recommendations for first time/young buyers in magazines is going to be a micro SUV over a sedan.

Pedestrian safety laws have blunted the front ends of sedans, the noses are taller. This shrinks the aerodynamic gap between a sedan and small SUV.

[cairns]

But JD Power!! Millennials!!!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=15iLHlJPp_0

[jcommin]

Originally Posted by cabmando

My brother hit a deer in a Vega. The deer won easily.

Back in the 70's I had a friend who owned a Vega. We car pooled to work. He would have a case of oil in the car all of the time. We would go to a gas station and not only get gas but he would add oil! A truly awful car.

[wdfifteen]

Originally Posted by cabmando

Yeah... we lost money on "old GM" and we lost money on "new GM" when the stock were sold. We lost money... and we lost taxpayer money. With the tax cuts, businesses and people keep more of the money they earn.
We as taxpayers lost money on a private business because of poor business decisions by that private business. That's a bad deal IMO

The problem is that, like the banks, car companies are too big to fail. The repercussions for the economy, from the direct loss of jobs, loss of jobs in supporting companies, loss of jobs in the economies of the communities where the manufacturing jobs are lost, would be horrendous. If GM and Chrysler had been little companies like the electric truck company in Illinois or even Tesla, it wouldn't shock the whole country to let them go under.
I don't like government subsidies, bailouts, or military contracts that are political pork either, but sometimes you have to face reality, hold your nose, and do what you have to do.

[Baz]

Originally Posted by wdfifteen

I wonder what the market for a ‘62 Chevy II with a 153 and three on the tree would be today. It’s not possible of course, what with crash and mileage regulations. What is the closest car available today, and what does it cost? Does anyone buy it?

Times have certainly changed but the cars we manufactured back in the day were way cooler than anything on the road today.....and the ads were as well!

[jcommin]

Originally Posted by Baz

Times have certainly changed but the cars we manufactured back in the day were way cooler than anything on the road today.....and the ads were as well!

The car art is really amazing during this time. There were true artists that created beautiful ad in the late 50s and 60s.