Cycling, thoughts, observations and the bonk

[masraum]

I'll start with the bonk. Since we started cycling, I've been trying, with very limited success, to get the missus to eat when we ride 30+ miles. I'll take a banana or two and a handful of granola/type bars. I may be able to get her to eat half a banana and half a bar (20-30gms of carbs total), but that's about it. It wasn't a problem at first when she was nervous about the bike and going slower, but as she's been getting more comfortable and speeding up, I've been worrying (but pushing her harder would have been the wrong move). Well, yesterday it hit her and it hit like a ton of bricks. We were probably going to do about 40 miles (our previous max was 33), and she was going faster than previous rides. I took a banana and 3 granola bars that were probably about 60gms of carbs all together. That wasn't enough food, but since we hadn't previously had any energy problems and I hadn't previously been able to get her to eat, I figured it would be adequate. At one point she said that she might be starting to feel a little hungry. I was hoping that wasn't a bad sign, but I was wrong. Every hill (and it's pretty flat here) was a struggle for her, half the time she'd start shiftng the gears the wrong way (but she did make it to the top of every hill). We ended up taking a shortcut home that she'd probably never have taken because of all of the roads, but it was that or she was afraid that she'd end up having to walk the bike several miles because we had nearly 8 left to go (vs 3 for the shortcut). We made it home. She's now on-board with the "eat before you're hungry" thing and listening to me about eating every 30 mins and eating at least 60 gms of carbs per hour. I'm ordering dextrose so I can make Redbeard's JAT Juice (homemade electrolyte/energy drink).

The good news is that we had been going faster than any previous run and we still ended up going 35 miles which was a couple of miles farther than our previous longest run. We also went out for a 15 mile recovery ride today since the weather was so nice.

We are both enjoying it (well, except yesterday) and marveling at how different it is than running (on many levels).

You guys were right, I had my seat a little lower initially and as I'm speeding up and going farther, I'm starting to raise the seat some to be more comfortable and get more power.

Good chamoises are great stuff!

This is a bit of a slippery slope kind of thing. I find myself pining over more expensive bikes. I find myself wanting new parts and gadgets.

I want new/better tires.

I want a new set of handlebars, probably alloy since I don't want to spend $300. I think mine are considered compact (i think they have about 60-70mm reach and about 120mm drop and are about 44cm wide. I think I could go with something a tad more narrow, maybe just 42cm. I also think I want something with a little different shape, maybe more of an ergonomic shape, something like:

These are the angled type. I've seen that some folks don't care for them because they limit where you can put your hands.




And then there's stuff like this, that just eliminates the top part of the curve in normal bars. These are calling to me a little more than the stuff above.
I think both of these bikes are Pelicanite's bikes. If anyone knows what these bars are, or a bar that looks the same that comes in alloy, let me know. (31.8mm stem/bar which most seem to be these days)




I do like what can be done with c/f (fat, flat tops, different shapes and sizes, etc...), but I don't want the expense, and I'm concerned about the durability. I'm sure that good c/f handlebars are great, but I'd hate to get a set and get a ding or scratch in them for sure. Besides, the bike was <$900. It seems a little crazy to spend $300 (or more) on a set of handlebars for it.

I think I'm about ready to pull the trigger on a bike computer and some lights. I saw some videos about lights that were interesting. Blinking lights are better than steadily lit lights. Random interval blinks are better than regular interval blinks and lights in motion (like lights on your knees or ankles) are better than static lights (like on a seat post). I'm still planning to get a couple of really good tail lights for us. I think they even have a group ride setting so they are less obnoxious for other riders in the group. I've wondered about lights that would strap to your knees or ankles so they bob up and down (kind of like Tobra talked about the glowing bracelets), but I've also wondered about the lights that go on your wheels/spokes. It seems like they would offer movement and would look like they were going up and down and may be easier than strapping stuff on your body every time you went out. I'm also trying to NOT get carried away. I don't think we need to end up like this (although with leds it wouldn't be hard to do):



There were a TON of folks out riding yesterday. I saw more people yesterday than I'd ever seen out before. It was a really good day for it. When we were getting started, I think it was Redbeard that told me to watch that we weren't getting bibs that didn't respond well to being stretched, that some could go transparent of sorts in the saddle. Well, yesterday, I guy went by myself and the missus. We both noticed that he was wearing a jersey that I have (but not the one that I was wearing) but what I noticed was that it looked like his bibs were worn and faded in the back, and then I realized that what I was really seeing was his ass crack. It was NOT a good site to behold. Fortunately, our bibs don't seem to have that problem. Why couldn't it have been a hot chick?!?

I guess the one other thing is that I'm hoping to get out one day soon by myself so I can get an idea of how fast I can ride without having to slow down for the missus. But, I'm in no hurry, and won't leave her at home if she can come to do it.

I guess that's all for now. I'm sure I've left some things out, but that just gives me more to post at another time.

[Jeff Alton]

The Red Cannondale in the pic above is mine. The bars are Cannondale C1 Ultralight made from 7050. They are considered compact as well.

[billybek]

Bonking is no fun.
I do take some shot bloks with me on longer rides but as long as I have a decent feed a few hours before riding I am good for a couple of hours on the bike. Most of my off road rides last about that long.

[masraum]

Originally Posted by Jeff Alton

The Red Cannondale in the pic above is mine. The bars are Cannondale C1 Ultralight made from 7050. They are considered compact as well.

Excellent, thanks tons!

[Shaun @ Tru6]

Steve, love the enthusiasm and just like our cars, it's a very slippery slope.

When I got my bike last summer I was just going to ride it but ended up putting $1K into it and to be honest, it was some of the best money I spent because each purchase made me want to ride the bike that much more. The bike became a more than the sum of its parts thing and so money well spent.

One thing I did was look to eBay for used parts. Picked up a close to perfect 3T Ergonova LTD carbon handlebars for half price. Super light, love them.

I've been doing a lot of winter riding recently, 32F here yesterday, and just loving being on the bike, in part, because I made the bike mine. And winter riding is great in an of itself.

[look 171]

Steve, she could be having a bad day on the bike. A lot of riding is psychological. After riding years, you can learn to pur that aside and push on, but bonking is very real. Everyone if different. I can go out and do 40 hard miles without eating anything, but I sure don't feel 100%. For a 50 mile hard ride on Saturday, I have a Banana and a piece of bread and go like hell then eat when I get home. See if she will do better with the same amount of food next time. I know if I am going to have a bad day after the first 5 mile of riding. Most times, I keep going and overcome it. After sometime pushing hard, your body or you will forget about how bad the day is and push on once warmed up. Its a funny thing that I can't explain to you.

I have had all type of bars over the years, the one on Jeff's Cannondale seem to fit me best. Tell you the truth, after riding on those bar for a few days, they all feel the same. You get used to us. People like the shallow drop or compact bars is because they don't have to go so far into the drops breaking their backs. I have always ridden alum/ alloy bars and they seem to be just fine. I have carbon on my Time, and can't tell the difference. If they are too stiff (I like it that way so the bike can be thrown around without loosing energy)drop another 3 lbs on tire pressure. Hate the flat top handlebars. It puts my hands to sleep.

[look 171]

I run those TTT bars Shuan mentioned. They are fine and stiff but I dislike the oval flat top section. That's just me, no one I talked to have that issue.

[Shaun @ Tru6]

^^^ I really like the flat top section. But these bars, like my old Momo Corse fixed back buckets, were practically made for me they are so comfortable. I am pretty sure Momo drugged me at one point and took my body measurements to make these seats. Close with the handlebar both in shape and isolation.

[mepstein]

You have about 1-1 1/2 hours of stored glycogen in your body. After it's used up, your body starts burning fat. Fat burning isn't an efficient way of generating large amounts of energy for your muscles so your body slows down - drastically. Also, if you don't replenish when you are riding, you will feel tired after the ride and take longer to recover. What you eat doesn't have to be too nutritious, it has to have easily digestible calories. So make up a list of easy to eat food that you like and can eat out of a little baggie. That's what your jersey pockets are for. Sports drinks can be good or just sweet tea, ect. Take a couple different choices with you when you ride because what you like in the comfort of your home may not be appetizing when it's 90 degrees. But eat and drink.
I've bonked a lot riding my bike. I always have a powerbar or two tucked in my bag. I've eaten so many of them that I'm not a big fan anymore but I know it's good for 250 calories and can get me home if I need to make a final push. Or for the companion who has bonked and needs a boost to get done the ride.

[masraum]

Originally Posted by look 171

Steve, she could be having a bad day on the bike. A lot of riding is psychological. After riding years, you can learn to pur that aside and push on, but bonking is very real. Everyone if different. I can go out and do 40 hard miles without eating anything, but I sure don't feel 100%. For a 50 mile hard ride on Saturday, I have a Banana and a piece of bread and go like hell then eat when I get home. See if she will do better with the same amount of food next time. I know if I am going to have a bad day after the first 5 mile of riding. Most times, I keep going and overcome it. After sometime pushing hard, your body or you will forget about how bad the day is and push on once warmed up. Its a funny thing that I can't explain to you.

Earlier this year I started fasting. Most weeks I'll fast 2-3 days. There were days that I'd train for our 10k run after not having had anything but water for 24-36 or even once or twice, 48 hours. I managed to do it just fine. You can get used to working like that. I may not be at 100%, but I was really close. She didn't do any of that. There was also an issue during the ride that threw her off, so I think the two things combined may have combined to create what she experienced. I'm sure she'll be back to 100% in a time or two.

I have had all type of bars over the years, the one on Jeff's Cannondale seem to fit me best. Tell you the truth, after riding on those bar for a few days, they all feel the same. You get used to us. People like the shallow drop or compact bars is because they don't have to go so far into the drops breaking their backs. I have always ridden alum/ alloy bars and they seem to be just fine. I have carbon on my Time, and can't tell the difference. If they are too stiff (I like it that way so the bike can be thrown around without loosing energy)drop another 3 lbs on tire pressure. Hate the flat top handlebars. It puts my hands to sleep.

Those don't seem to be readily available for purchase, but I like them. There is a Cannondale C2 Ergo on Amazon for $29. Makes you wonder if it's fake, or seems more likely that it's a take off.
https://www.amazon.com/Cannondale-HBC2ERGO31-8X42BQ-Handlebar-Road-Ergo/dp/B00HHONEOQ

One of the things that I noticed that I forgot to put in my first post is that now that I'm getting the bike setup better and I'm getting stronger and more used to riding, I'm beginning to feel like the drops is a better place to be. I only very rarely ride on the flats. Most of the time, I'm on the hoods, but I'm starting to ride on the drops more and more and I like the feel. I am feeling it in my arms, shoulders and back a bit, but I just have to get stronger and get used to it. I am finding that when I'm on the hoods, my elbows want to angle out, but I'm more comfortable with my arms twisted so that my elbows point down. I'm working on that. It's not as much of an issue when I'm in the drops.

I found that Zipp makes some bars that look pretty similar. They make the Service Course 80 whether that's the SC 80 in 6061 at 320gm and $55 or the SC SL80 in 7075 at 260gm and $110. They look pretty similar. And Zipp seems to make decent quality stuff, at least, if their wheels are anything to go by.

[herr_oberst]

I bonked on this ride in January, totally my fault. The weather was wet, and I did everything wrong - I didn't have enough layers so I was cold and wet the whole ride, I didn't eat enough pre ride, and I didn't drink electrolytes and I didn't eat enough on the ride itself. (It's actually closer to a 30 mile ride, but for some reason Garmin broke the ride into 2 segments.)

I've done this exact same ride dozens of times with no problems in the past, but about a mile from my home I literally had to stop and eat a power bar to keep going. Totally my fault from the get go; it's almost like I was trying to sabotage my fun.... I know better and until this day, I couldn't remember the last time I hit the wall....

Thing is, it seems to take about a week to replenish the glycogen properly, weak for a week....

Eat and drink. A bottle of water and an energy bar or equivalent every hour will keep me topped up...

[red-beard]

On Bonking. It is purely physiological.

Muscles build up glycogen. That is their fuel. You have about 2 hours of glycogen. If you keep exercising (like long distance cycling), you will fully deplete the glycogen. Your muscles still need fuel, so they start pulling glucose from your blood stream. You end up with low blood sugar.

The fix is easy, eat before you are hungry. And the closer to glucose, the better. JAT Juice is a dextrose based sports drink (~200 K-calories per bottle). It will support more riding. BUT, with even further rides, you will need even more calories. JAT Fuel. JAT fuel is around 100Kcal per oz.

For the MS 150, I would "schedule" about 4000 calories between the JAT Juice and JAT Fuel. Yes, you can use shot blocks, gels, etc. They all do the same thing. But it takes times to digest. Start BEFORE you get on the bike.

Do not worry about vitamins. DO worry about electrolytes. Gatorade and the rest have reduced the sodium/potassium levels, since so many people are drinking sports drinks, like, well, water. (Drink Brawndo - "It has electrolytes!"). I have a bicycling sports medicine book which I used as a guide to make these supplements.

I doubt you will need 4000 calories. But you will need 2-3K each day on the MS150. And Mrs. Masraum will need 1K-2K.

Fluids - It depends on the temperature.

60F or less: 1 Bottle/20 miles
60-80F: 1 bottle/15 miles
80+: 1 bottle/10 miles

Your needs will be different. Start looking at the temp at ride time. Weigh yourself. YES, and MRS. Masraum. Check your weight after the ride. The different is how much water you lost. You should increase your consumption by that much at that temperature. That said, there is a maximum amount of fluid you can process per hour.

[look 171]

Zipp bars are fine.

This is a good bar but they are all pretty much the same. It all comes down to price

https://www.ebay.com/itm/3T-ERGONOVA-PRO-ALUMINUM-DROP-BAR-31-8MM-CLAMP-42CM-WIDTH-BLACK-BAR-/392196405882


I really like the Shinamo Pro bars or Deda bars because they are a little thicker on the flats

this exact one but I want carbon due to weight https://www.ebay.com/itm/Shimano-PRO-Vibe-Compact-Road-Bike-Handlebar-31-8mm-Drop-Bar-Black-44cm-440mm/173530623360?epid=604576989&hash=item28673b2d80:g:4JEAAOSw~B9bmP4f

Me likes, my next bar on my new bike
SUPERLEGGERA 35 | carbon handlebar Ø 35 | Deda Elementi

[Tishabet]

Regarding bonking, I typically train up for centuries and do a few every season. I have found that I do need to fuel regularly in order not to bonk around mile 60, and for me the important thing is to consume calories pretty regularly and to have some variety so that I don't get sick of whatever it is I'm trying to cram down. I do not love eating much "real" food (sandwiches and stuff like that) during the ride, only before and after.

Here is what I use:
One bottle with plain water (maybe some hammer tabs or Nuun if it is very hot) and one with tailwind. Tailwind is great stuff, someone here on pelican first recommended it to me and it is great.
In the bento box: a few gels, some stinger waffles
In my jersey: shot blocks
Under my shorts leg: wrappers from all of the above
Note that some of these products (gels, blocks) can come with added caffeine. Ymmv but for me I have to watch the total intake on those or I will start to feel pretty gross.

One other thing to note: you mention that you are looking into getting a bike computer, so I assume you don't use one today. Getting a computer (or even just your phone with Bluetooth) and a pulse meter can really help you avoid the bonk and general exhaustion, and it is a great training tool. I find that "hitting the rev limiter" on my heart rate really takes it out of me, and I have my computer (in my case a Wahoo elemnt) set up to give me visual cues on what band of heart rate I am in. If I stay close to a certain sweet spot for bpm and drink enough water with just a little fueling, I can go for days and days.

[Tishabet]

Here is what I am talking about regarding heart rate, this is from a century last summer. I want to be in that green zone as much as possible.

[stuartj]

These are Easton compact bars, and are (aero!) flat on top. My previous bike had a slightly flattened top bar, and I love these even flatter bars. The compact drop makes it easier to ride in that position for extended periods, no doubt about it.

I only have a basic CatEye computer, and the only downside with it is that it doesn't transfer easily between bikes because of the wheel and crank sensor. Otherwise, it is small, light, doesn't need charging and tells me everything I want to know and there is no app tracking me.....


Bonking. Is really unpleasant, and it is amazing how quickly you can go from "Im the fastest thing on the road" to "I cant get home". Pay special attention in the heat.

[masraum]

Originally Posted by Tishabet

One other thing to note: you mention that you are looking into getting a bike computer, so I assume you don't use one today. Getting a computer (or even just your phone with Bluetooth) and a pulse meter can really help you avoid the bonk and general exhaustion, and it is a great training tool. I find that "hitting the rev limiter" on my heart rate really takes it out of me, and I have my computer (in my case a Wahoo elemnt) set up to give me visual cues on what band of heart rate I am in. If I stay close to a certain sweet spot for bpm and drink enough water with just a little fueling, I can go for days and days.

We have Apple watches that monitor our HR. I also have a chest-strap HRM (Wahoo) that I can use either on my phone or watch. Right now, I'm using a cadence sensor (Wahoo) and the HRM on my phone and I'm also running on my watch. My chest-strap HRM and cadence sensor will both pair with the Bike computer that I'm looking at getting (Wahoo Element Bolt). I think the missus wasn't watching her HR on her watch. She does when we run, but not as much when we are cycling.

[red-beard]

I tell you what, come over this weekend and I'll give a personal demonstration on how to make JAT Juice and JAT Fuel. I'll even give a 3 month supply of Malto-dextrin.

[Tobra]

Bear in mind that for most people, over training is not a problem. It is a matter of under recovery.

[herr_oberst]

I have a vegan cycling buddy, he's stronger than $#!^, and has a ton of energy. He turned me onto beet-root powder as a post-ride recovery - I've done it for a while, and it really seems to help. It sure doesn't hurt.