Has The Market Softened For The 23 Window?

[ossiblue]

I recently sold my 67 13 window VW bus as I changed my life's interests. As others said, split window buses are a love/hate relationship and you must be a mechanical DIYer to really enjoy one. I will disagree that the popularity is limited to we "boomers." When I had my bus, I got the greatest positive responses from young people who all wanted to sit in it and take pictures of themselves inside or around it. Older folks always mentioned that they "had one just like it" and usually made a nostalgic remark regarding their lives at the time.

As far as that particular bus, it appears to be a 62 or 63 due to the small rear hatch but the "fried egg" turn signals. 64 and later were not 23 windows due to the larger rear hatch, unless they are Brazilian buses which have flooded the market recently. That bus has tons of repro parts, making it hard to determine the year, but doesn't detract, IMO. If you are serious, get the VIN from the engine tin, not the ID plate on the overhead vent. That will tell you if it's an authentic 23 window or a clone. To be worth full value, the VIN in the engine bay must match the VIN on the overhead vent, and the ID plate screwed to the bulkhead behind the passenger seat backrest. If it doesn't have all 3 IDs, at least the engine bay must be there to be considered worth purchasing.

As far as the market, it does seem to be softening as real 23 window buses were crazy high. Still, $60K, IMO, is a lot for that bus without knowing the extent of its originality and quality of the restoration. I would suggest taking a person knowledgeable of split-windows with you to inspect the bus.

One more thing. Unlike the antique cars mentioned in another post, these buses are practical and can be driven regularly--with the proper mind-set. Engines and transmissions can be modified to make it tolerable, but it will never keep up with full-flow interstate traffic without stressing. Yes, stay in the right lane on the interstate and enjoy the ride. These vehicles should be considered a "fun car" for part-time use, but they can be pressed into service for the long-haul if properly maintained.

Edit: Forgot to compliment widebody 911 on his 57! Very nice, indeed! Please post when paint is done and further completed.

[daepp]

Originally Posted by Jeff Higgins

They used to say that the best cure for wanting a Volkswagen bus is getting a Volkswagen bus.

I grew up through the era when these were new. The only folks that had them only had them because they couldn't afford anything better. They were horrible then, whether you were driving one, riding in one, or stuck behind one. The demands of modern traffic have not improved that situation.

I drove the crap outa mine in college (early 80’s), and really enjoyed it, and it was my daily driver. A Great party bus, and a hoot to take to Newport or Huntington. Only trouble ever had with it was a leaking rear main seal (if I remember correctly) that would let oil get into all the junkyard starters I’d put in it. After a while I quit replacing starters and would try to park on a slight incline (very easy at hilly Cal Poly). Heck, a stiff breeze was enough to push that thing and start it.

Of course, I was a LOT younger then...

I still wish I hadn’t sold it, but at the time it was the right decision, and since someone had hacked the rear wheel wells, I never thought it could be fixed or worth keeping. Man was I wrong.

It didn’t look like much, but it was sure fun to own. A crap load of smiles to the mile!

[Baz]

[R K T]

I resemble all of the above remarks!

Had a couple in college in the late 60s-early 70s and actually lived the cliche of following the Grateful Dead from town to town with my girlfriend for a while.

So to recapture a moment of youth I bought a 64 Panel a couple years ago. Too much fun and attracts almost too much attention! Getting gas should only take 2-3 minutes.....nope more like 20 minutes because everyone else getting gas has to come over and check it out and tell me their VW story.

But even though it's been fun it's time for someone else to have fun. It's for sale.

[Clatter]

Well, here you are in my back yard (that's why none of you recognize me).

Actually, the record for a 23 is now at $312K..
When drunk billionaires get in a bidding war at BJ to impress their mistresses,
These kinds of things happen.

The ones that sold for stupid money were not OG survivor 'connoisseur' buses; they were shiny restored with chintzy aftermarket parts; and not even an early model year.
Talk about waking up with a hangover thinking "what have I done"!?!
Guess people have done worse at the casinos..

The number of re-pop parts will determine value.
Bus geeks will closely scrutinize things like headlights, and part numbers on tail-light lenses.
The number of OG German parts will determine the ultimate value of one of these in the long run.

Some shameless fakes have been passed off lately.
Once the billionaires get to bidding, there's always those looking for a quick buck.
Here's a good read for ya -->https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=694683&highlight=attorney

I can speak from having two buses for sale right now that the market is softening.
Because the #vanlife #wanderlust #gofundme lifestyle has been played out, like any passing fad,
And anyone with money who wanted a 21/23 got one.
Add the influx of Brazilian buses who someone now figured out the loophole to get licensed and road-legal in the US,
Drive-in conversion for your 13-15 is now available..
We have an 'adjustment' coming.

BAD time to buy. Wait, and you'll see.

Remember tri-five Chevies in the Late 80s?
Can you even give away a Model T these days?

If you really want a 21/23, take a bus geek to look at it with you.
Only a German-made, Built-originally-as-a-deluxe-21/23 with many OG parts will retain some value.
Think 'antiques roadshow'; shiny paint, new upholstery - red flag - 'restroyed'.
Holy grail is original paint.. But we can't have everything..
Bus people are idiots about original paint, if you ever go to one of those events you'll see.
Patina is a way of life for some of them..! (inserts eye-roll)

Hope this helps.
If you want to buy a deluxe because you love them that's fine,
But your timing investment-wise is very poor.
Even people who know nothing about these have known this for a while..

[URY914]

I had a '67 in about 1988. Should have held on to it.

[Clatter]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=snckhUVo8XU

[GH85Carrera]

My brother has a 1974 Westphalia van. He has had it since 1977. He does not remember how many time the odometer has rolled over. Every time he drives it, someone offers to buy it, and of course they want to pay 600 bucks. His standard answer is the same thing I reply when people ask to buy my El Camino. We both reply, "What would I replace it with" there is no other vehicle on the market that is a honest replacement for it. He had spent thousands of night in in camping, and he figures there have been over 100 dead deer on top of of it being hauled home from the hunting trips he makes.

[scottmandue]

Originally Posted by MRM

I think that it will one day drop the way that early 1900s vintage cars dropped. When my dad was young they were high dollar collectors cars. Now they’re interesting pieces of history and worth a few dollars to keep around because they’re interesting. I think all VW vans are like that. If it’s what you want and can afford it, get it. Life’s short. You should enjoy it to the max. But as an investment I think it’s in an inevitable downward slope.

I was looking at a Studebaker in good original condition someone local was selling for a couple grand. Unfortunately someone else snapped it up before I could put together the $$$.

So, when are 60's Vette prices going to start dropping?

[daepp]

All great info, thanks. I think I gonna pass, because of the above , but also:

I’m looking for more of a project. Not cutting our rust and welding etc, but there doesn’t appear to be much at all to do on this one.

And, I can (and do) drive my 911 all over the western U.S. Especially up and down California. That’s something I think I could do after restoring a Bay Window bus; not at all with this one.

Thanks again guys - guess I needed a dose of sanity.

[Baz]

Originally Posted by daepp

-snip-
A Great party bus, and a hoot to take to Newport or Huntington.
-snip-

[tabs]

They look like a bread box on wheels.

[daepp]

Originally Posted by Clatter

Well, here you are in my back yard (that's why none of you recognize me).
Some shameless fakes have been passed off lately.
Once the billionaires get to bidding, there's always those looking for a quick buck.
Here's a good read for ya -->https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=694683&highlight=attorney.

Wow Clatter - epic post - thank you! You should stop by more often!

Due to your entire post, plus what I’ve read in the first 15 pages of The Samba (very sad) thread you linked above... HARD PASS. Thanks again.

[daepp]

Ps - re The Samba thread, I couldn’t help but notice the scrolling gif at the bottom of each page:

[widebody911]

I never see that - uBlock FTW!

But yes, that shop will install roof windows and sunroof in your existing bus, or sell you the parts to do so

[Clatter]

Thanks for the props.

You will find other sad tales if you dig around on the Samba.
Luckily, the one I linked had a happy ending.

Go over to the barndoor forum there and look at some of those crazy resurrection threads.
The lengths that people will go to now to resurrect an early bus is jaw-dropping.
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=578352&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=579485


Love this site,
But,
Because I'm already on too many other forums,
I just lurk here.

If you want to see something really stupid,
Here's my '67 Fastback with 914 motor, 915 transaxle, 944T brakes, 968 Wheels, etc..
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=581759
(I won't take it personally if nobody reads it, I realize you time has to be worth something ;-) )