jeeping accident at moab utah

[juanbenae]

any of you guys seen this? https://www.jlwranglerforums.com/forum/threads/reports-rumors-serious-accident-at-easter-jeep-safari.27764/

the link above is from a board the driver frequents so they are going somewhat easy on the guy. ive seen other jeep & wheeling sites where the criticism is significantly more venomous. very sad for the lady involved who has apparently lost her leg.


the driver who has a youtube channel and has been quite the showman prior to this incident in his videos. question is does he own it in his next youtube clip or delete the channel at the suggestion of his attorney? the guy is about to lose everything he's ever worked for and everything he will in the future.

really very sad, but not surprising with all the new to wheeling commandos out there these days. at least when we start of tracking our cars there is club oversight for the beginners in most instances. jeeping is more of a free for all that if your rig looks worthy so are you...

[Tervuren]

I do wonder at hill climbs about the people standing at the side of the hill if they understand the risk and are brave about it, or do they not understand and thinking being a few feet off the intended path is perfectly safe?

[Tobra]

People are pretty oblivious, for the most part.

[herr_oberst]

That's a tough one; it looks like driver has plenty of experience in the sport; he's young, looks like he's in his 30's so I would think reaction time wouldn't have been an issue? I don't see anything in the preliminary writeups that makes it seem like it's anything more than just a tragic accident. Wrong place/wrong time.

I've done stupid things as a spectator at motorsports events that even decades later I get a big case of the willies thinking about how things could have gone horribly sideways in a life-changing nanosecond.

[zakthor]

When i took my motorcycle safety class I remember being really surprised by how inept and incompetent the new harley owners were. At the end of the 3 day weekend the 11 person class was down to 5 -the other 6 removed as a danger. These were people in tbeir early 60s in new full harley leathers and the motor control of 5 year olds. I felt really bad for them, they seemed impaired.

A few years later i spend a night in a motel in moab, i was the only non-jeeper. Those folks all had new jeeps 'trail rated' and all had various custom bits installed. Theyd driven in from all over the country, spoke a lot of jeeping jargon and i got the same exact read as the harley riders in my mc class - folks reliving their youth but mentally were overtaxed and confused.

In both cases the strange tbing for me was that i thought i liked to see people pushing their limits, i was initially excited for them but after discussion i felt like the folks were aimless marketing victims.

Probably part of the mismatch is i value the desert for solitude, for them it was noisy and social. I 'wheel' myself to get to remote places (rock climb) and know others that do the same. I think that jeep culture is pretty sad but im happy theyre out instead of home watching tv.

[Jims5543]

When I first got my FJ Cruiser in 2008 I was on the FJ Cruiser forum and lot and found what I called Trail Snobs off putting.

Seems if you were not out every weekend with your truck up to its windows in water, climbing over boulders and rocks you were a "Mall Crawler".

At the time I was Autocrossing my 911 and RX7 a lot, I was also doing a lot of track days.

It never occured to me to tell everyone on car forums if you are not racing your sports car your a poser.

I looked through that thread, seems the cat was framed on a rock, floored it to get out then traveled 50' running over a spectator and tucking it into a ravine or crevice or whatever they call it.

So either his pedal got stuck, ot he had the reaction time similar to the people zakthor encountered.

[speeder]

Of course it was a tragic accident but as is frequently the case, there was some serious schit-for-brains involved.

[JavaBrewer]

Originally Posted by zakthor

In both cases the strange tbing for me was that i thought i liked to see people pushing their limits, i was initially excited for them but after discussion i felt like the folks were aimless marketing victims.

True for many enthusiast endeavors. Marketing...the slope is very slippery for Jeeps, too much fun to upgrade and personalize. Hell I invested a few $K on mine with some modest changes including needed new tires. I am certain it can take me anywhere I need to go off-road minus the really extreme axle breaking stuff. I'd wager that 75% of the folks you see driving those $80K modified Jeeps hanging with survival/rescue gear and 37" tires could get by with a stock Jeep off the showroom. Not right or wrong - it's all marketing and a need to belong.

[Jims5543]

Originally Posted by JavaBrewer

True for many enthusiast endeavors. Marketing...the slope is very slippery for Jeeps, too much fun to upgrade and personalize. Hell I invested a few $K on mine with some modest changes including needed new tires. I am certain it can take me anywhere I need to go off-road minus the really extreme axle breaking stuff. I'd wager that 75% of the folks you see driving those $80K modified Jeeps hanging with survival/rescue gear and 37" tires could get by with a stock Jeep off the showroom. Not right or wrong - it's all marketing and a need to belong.

I sold my first 2007 FJ Cruiser in 2009 and lamented selling it, I was driving a 2004 Taco at the time. My wife suggested I sell the Taco and get another FJ.

I decided to try to find another 2007, this would have been in 2010 or so.

I found one for Sale on FJ Cruiser Forums and bought it sight unseen and no PPI. In 2010 people were in such bad shape and desperate to sell, I stole it from him, so much so he had to take a loan out to get the title after my paying price.

I did not negotiate down either, it was his asking price, except it had sat for sale for months with no bites, he kept dropping the price, I watched it for a couple of months then made a move.

He had installed thousands in upgrades to this thing. 3" frame lift, Rough Rider suspension, steel front bumper, electric winch, Panasonic Double Din radio with Nav, CD Radio, and lots of other goodies I am probably forgetting.

I changed / added 3 things, Rock rails so my kids and wife could step up in it easier, I took off the alloy 17" rims and put on steel 16" rims and tossed on 285 tires and finally he had a Borla cat back on it that droned so bad at highway speeds I purchased a TRD Cat Back for it to compliment the TRD Intake he had on it.

I purchased with 50K miles on it and it now has over 170K, to date I have changed rear axle seals, and an alternator. I plan on keeping this thing forever.

The seller lamented to me that is was doomed to be a Mall Crawler now, since he was a Trail Snob. I should have been insulted except I felt bad for him paying off a loan on a car he no longer owned.

When I use it for work it gets a nice 4x4 workout, I was just in a 20 acre retired palm tree farm and had to be careful not to drive in the holes where the trees used to be, I hit a few and I am sure my Taco would have gotten stuck in them. The FJ rocked but shook it off easy.

I do not purposefully go out and look for places to climb over etc.. I use it as intended, a 4x4 that can get the job done.

We have toyed with getting a rooftop tent for it and doing some overland camping in it once the last kid is out of the house.

[Sooner or later]

I have been to Moab a couple of times. XJ with OME lift, lockers, and 31s. There was a bunch of climbs that I would never have thought about trying.

[Arizona_928]

high centered and "sent it"...

Moab is in my opinion a good place to flip your truck. There's a lot of videos with people with more money then brains doing things that a truck or jeep should not do out there. Yet these guys get 37" / 40" tires, 1 ton axles, and try to climb their jeeps through washes.

The current culture of jeep guys. Is a trail, and convoy of jeeps doing the same obstacles. Not my cup of tea. Same as the weekend warriors with the toy haulers, 80k diesel trucks, and a side-by-sides polaris.

I hope he had enough insurance, as with all those goodies on his truck and not have the highest limits is stupid.
Even my pos 18 y/o tdi DD has the highest coverage my insurance offers.

[craigster59]

When I had my 4Runner I met up with a few local guys who were hitting the trails every weekend. I didn't mind climbing some hills and offroading but these guys rigs were beat to shyte, and you could tell they were their daily drivers and still owed mucho dinero on them.

I eventually took a pass on future runs, I used mine to reach lakes in the eastern Sierra to fish, not bust it up only to call the boss on Monday "I won't be in today, I kind of effed up my truck this weekend".

[juanbenae]

Originally Posted by herr_oberst

That's a tough one; it looks like driver has plenty of experience in the sport; he's young, looks like he's in his 30's so I would think reaction time wouldn't have been an issue? I don't see anything in the preliminary writeups that makes it seem like it's anything more than just a tragic accident. Wrong place/wrong time.

agreed, and I do not know the details to comment too much. as I noted a couple other wheeling boards the were not nearly as kind to the guy as the were in his home sandbox forum I linked. I went down a rabbit hole yesterday following the story to multiple forums that I won't be back tracking to post. there was much criticism and questioning how does he rock loose from a high center in what many projected as 4L and careen 50' out of control?


what I can say in the few minutes I logged on his youtube channel his walk around instructional video posted just before this trip apparently he was kind of a pompous, know it all paul tool.

[juanbenae]

one of my buddies just forwarded me this. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ikk3heNrAU4

this is not the driver obviously, but seems to sum up much of what is being discussed here and elsewhere.

[berettafan]

Accepting a lot of risk as a bystander. People watch because the want to see wrecks.

[Jeff Higgins]

One of my old work mates is a pretty hard-core four wheeler. Been at it long enough to know the ropes. I actually sold him my '71 FJ40 many years ago, which he is building into the crawler from hell.

When the Jeep Rubicon came out he told that the old time four wheeling set called it the "Noob-icon". Basically a turn-key off roader that would pretty much keep up with any of their home built, super customized and focused trail rigs. In comparing notes, we agreed it was kind of their equivalent, in their world, to the GT3 in our world. Far more capable than most of its drivers, drivers who had not "earned their stripes" and had no idea what it was all about. Equally dangerous, for all of the same reasons.

[Arizona_928]

^^

I completely agree. Then came the 4 door wrangler....

[otto_kretschmer]

all having four wheel drive means is you will get stuck further up the trail

having 4wd, locking diffs, 44" mudders… means you will get stuck FURTHER up the trail

I still miss my Scout

[Seahawk]

Originally Posted by Jeff Higgins

When the Jeep Rubicon came out he told that the old time four wheeling set called it the "Noob-icon". Basically a turn-key off roader that would pretty much keep up with any of their home built, super customized and focused trail rigs. In comparing notes, we agreed it was kind of their equivalent, in their world, to the GT3 in our world. Far more capable than most of its drivers, drivers who had not "earned their stripes" and had no idea what it was all about. Equally dangerous, for all of the same reasons.

Interesting perspective. I hadn't equated the two but an apt comparison.

My family did an lot of off roading when I was growing up - nothing too goofy, certainly no rock crawling. We had an old Willy's and an FJ. Both slow but able if you stuck to the plan.

Quick Sea Story:

The big leap for me was during the first Persian Gulf conflict in 1990. The Japanese donated 50 new Toyota Land Cruisers to the effort...they showed up in Bahrain and nobody really knew what to do with them. I had an interesting job as an Air Boss on a gator as well as being on the staff of Commander, Middle East Forces.

I convinced the Captain of the ship and the Admiral that I sure could use one while in port, really help me with logistics and running the helo detachment in Bahrain, the Desert Ducks.

They bought it. The first time I took the LC off road in the desert it was a revelation. What an incredible machine, nothing like the old days. I really could have gotten into trouble.

We have two FJ's, the 2013 with the off road package. My son has it in law school and has spent a lot of time trailing it in Georgia. Very, very capable with no mods other than tires.

[911boost]

Hmmm, this thread is similar too and as is typical with any Harley thread on here there is a fair amount of stereotyping taking place.

I’m glad some of you guys are so perfect and haven’t ever done anything wrong Or have had to learn when picking up a new hobby. I know that is not the case for me.

I don’t own a Jeep or have any desire too. I have some friends that do and they flat bed them to Utah and other western states fairly often. I have seen stories of them having to save folks that are stuck, rolled over etc. and they have a sense of “community” that lately it seems like we are missing here.

I agree about the GT3 comment Jeff, it is amazing what mine is capable of even when I drive it like miss daisy is in the back seat on the street.

I guess I’m one of those guys lumped into the Polaris side by side comment above (even though I got there as an evolution of dirt bikes > 4 wheelers > side by side). Me and my friends got tired of breaking them on the harder core trails so while we still take them out on more technical rides, we each bought RC rock crawlers to mess around with at camp while drinking a beer. The parts for them are cheap and no one gets hurt.

Hopefully this tragic accident can be used as a teaching experience for other newer people to the jeep/Moab scene.