Tesla: The Great Short

[widebody911]

This is the one I really don't like. There was another recent story about a guy who bought a used Tesla with the AutoPilot feature, but since the new owner didn't personally pay for the feature - it was already on the car - they remotely removed it. To me that's the same as buying a used car with a nice set of factory optional wheels, and the dealerships sends a couple of guys with a floor jack over to your house in the middle of the night to to remove them because you didn't buy them personally. Extending that logic, they could repo the entire car. https://thenextweb.com/cars/2020/02/13/tesla-autopilot-surreptitiously-taken-now-given-back-alec-model-s/

Originally Posted by john70t

The company can remotely alter driveable range and disable features on the car you bought and have ownership of:
https://www.techdirt.com/articles/20200208/16162043884/end-ownership-tesla-software-updates-giveth-tesla-software-updates-taketh-away.shtml

[Sooner or later]

Pushing 850 this morning

[john70t]

SOPA/PIPA/DMCA vs. Right To Repair?

In the future, I can see all personal property with smart features or anything electronic being 'leased' instead of 'owned'.

[MysticLlama]

The forest being cut down was planted as a tree farm for cardboard. Native trees will be planted elsewhere to make up for them.

I'm not totally sure what happened with the whole autopilot being taken away thing. I think it had to do with the car being salvaged or something or other, and a bit more complicated than just a 2nd owner sort of thing. I also read somewhere they gave it back anyhow after figuring out the story.

Autopilot doesn't stop for red lights, that article also says they don't know if it was on or not.

Yes, smart summon is too dumb to do much more than not hit things and sorta make its way toward you. I've used it 3-4 times, and it is better now than the original release, but I wouldn't call it good.

I don't really understand the fire truck one, that definitely should not have happened and is a big fail. But also: "The man’s blood alcohol level was two times over the legal limit, the California Highway Patrol said. However, he insisted that he was not to blame and that his car was “on autopilot.”"

[gtc]

I wish there was a forum filter that prevented people from posting links to bogus sites like zerohedge.

[Shaun @ Tru6]

Originally Posted by gtc

I wish there was a forum filter that prevented people from posting links to bogus sites like zerohedge.

I've never understood how people gobble down fake news from zerohedge, russia today, etc. They are a cornerstone to our developing Idiocracy normalizing fake news and wacky conspiracy theories.

The problem with the Internet is it gives stupid people a voice.

[RWebb]

I agree about the stoopid web sites; psychologists have studied why people read them & believe - they want to believe, and a specific brain region is even known to be involved


a German court did order Tesla to stop cutting of a forest or tree farm or whatever

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-tesla-gigafactory-germany/tesla-ordered-by-german-court-to-stop-cutting-down-trees-for-gigafactory-idUSKBN20A0KK


I dunno German law, but it sounds like a TRO or preliminary injunction here - i.e. temporary hold while the ct. gets to hear and consider arguments from both sides

[legion]

And you guys think that Musk is telling you the truth?

[john70t]

MysticLlama I don't mean to totally knock the brand.
Tesla EV is exceptional in specs and a giant leap forward for EVs in general.
(completely US Government funded or not)
Musk seems to be in his zone 'driving on the edge' and especially now dating Amber Hearst.

The issue is that Tesla gets a free pass for a multitude of repeat accidents which would crush any other manufacturer.

"Autopilot" should have been marketed "Driver Assist" from the start.

Other features such as "retrieve mode" should never be allowed on a production vehicle.
It would not even pass a HS driving test.

[MysticLlama]

Originally Posted by RWebb

I agree about the stoopid web sites; psychologists have studied why people read them & believe - they want to believe, and a specific brain region is even known to be involved


a German court did order Tesla to stop cutting of a forest or tree farm or whatever

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-tesla-gigafactory-germany/tesla-ordered-by-german-court-to-stop-cutting-down-trees-for-gigafactory-idUSKBN20A0KK


I dunno German law, but it sounds like a TRO or preliminary injunction here - i.e. temporary hold while the ct. gets to hear and consider arguments from both sides

Yes, it seems similar to an injunction. They were given the go ahead at their own financial risk since the factory itself hasn't been approved yet, but the land clearing was okayed.

"The court ruling, by the higher administrative court of the states of Berlin and Brandenburg, comes after the state environmental office gave a green light to clear 92 hectares of forest for the plant.

Planning permission has not yet been granted to build the Gigafactory, however, meaning U.S. entrepreneur Elon Musk’s company is preparing the ground at its own risk."

[MysticLlama]

Originally Posted by john70t

MysticLlama I don't mean to totally knock the brand.
Tesla EV is exceptional in specs and a giant leap forward for EVs in general.
(completely US Government funded or not)
Musk seems to be in his zone 'driving on the edge' and especially now dating Amber Hearst.

The issue is that Tesla gets a free pass for a multitude of repeat accidents which would crush any other manufacturer.

"Autopilot" should have been marketed "Driver Assist" from the start.

Other features such as "retrieve mode" should never be allowed on a production vehicle.
It would not even pass a HS driving test.

You're right. The things that people do on autopilot are irresponsible. There are also plenty of arguments around the name that autopilot works very similar to how it does on aircraft, but it's kinda bogus to expect the general public to make that connection in detail.

That said, I'll never choose to commute without again, the future is now. I find it highly predictable and pretty obvious where it's going to get dodgy, but a lot of people use blind faith.

Tesla, and to a large extent everything that Musk does, back to PayPal and other things, is a reading of what's not in the rules and doing that. Regulation isn't there and doesn't keep up fast enough when you're innovating in that way. It's why most race rulebooks start with saying that if it isn't in there, it's not allowed, vs the other way around.

Given that, it's a huge risk as a shareholder, but I believe the possible rewards as the vision progresses make it worth it.

[speeder]

I wonder how many Tesla shorters have killed them selves.

[widebody911]

Originally Posted by john70t

SOPA/PIPA/DMCA vs. Right To Repair?

In the future, I can see all personal property with smart features or anything electronic being 'leased' instead of 'owned'.

The <blank>-as-a-service model is getting popular - a rent-seeker's wet dream.

[widebody911]

Originally Posted by MysticLlama

I'm not totally sure what happened with the whole autopilot being taken away thing. I think it had to do with the car being salvaged or something or other, and a bit more complicated than just a 2nd owner sort of thing. I also read somewhere they gave it back anyhow after figuring out the story.

No; they only gave it back because the story gained a significant amount of traction in social media.

[island911]

Originally Posted by widebody911

The <blank>-as-a-service model is getting popular - a rent-seeker's wet dream.

That post wins this thread.

[red-beard]

Originally Posted by speeder

I wonder how many Tesla shorters have killed them selves.

I wouldn't invest nor short that stock. Way to stupid crazy.

But explain the valuation. The only explanation I have is the demand for the stock is high but the supply (stock actually able to be traded) is small. Like Amazon around 1999.

Amazon's valuation in the early 2000's, when it only sold books, required it to sell literally half of all books in the USA. Bezo's took the platform he created and turned it into a marketplace to sell anything and everything: A ---> Z.

Show me where Tesla can transform his company into something that equals the stock value. Most of the time, Elon is big on talk and short on results.

[Sooner or later]

Originally Posted by red-beard

I wouldn't invest no short that stock. Way to stupid crazy.

But explain the valuation. The only explanation I have is the demand for the stock is high but the supply (stock actually able to be traded) is small. Like Amazon around 1999.

Amazon's valuation in the early 2000's, when it only sold books, required it to sell literally half of all books in the USA. Bezo's took the platform he created and turned it into a marketplace to sell anything and everything: A ---> Z.

Show me where Tesla can transform his company into something that equals the stock value. Most of the time, Elon is big on talk and short on results.

It is far more than just a car company. It is charging stations, batteries, solar panels, and self driving technology.

[Sooner or later]

Tesla is like GM, Exxon, and Microsoft rolled into one. If he can pull it off it will be worth gazillions.

[Sooner or later]

Up another 80. 938

[speeder]

Exactly. People buying Tesla stock are making an educated gamble about the future, not simply crunching their current book keeping numbers. Amazon and many other giants lost $$ for years, sometimes over a decade.