Tesla: The Great Short

[Racerbvd]

Originally Posted by biosurfer1

I appreciate Elon Musk drive and genius, however when it comes to running a company, genius isn't a term that comes to mind. He is his own worst enemy and if he could just stop being an ego maniac and focus on Telsa, imagine the innovation he could accomplish.

True,

I wish they would build a modern version of this.

[Scott R]

There is a Roadster on BAT right now, 160k car going for 40k because it hasn't had the 20k$ ecm replacement done on it. Basically considered a dud at this point.

https://bringatrailer.com/listing/2010-tesla-roadster-7/

[Racerbvd]

The next con???

*ocgarza*, Today 12:45 PM

Tesla Creates Own Insurance Program*(from today's Wall Street Journal)

Tesla*Inc.*TSLA -1.56%*is creating its own branded insurance program, a move the electric-car maker believes will enable it to offer a lower-cost product to drivers.

Tesla Chief Executive Elon Musk has been working with a unit of Virginia-based*Markel*Corp.*MKL -0.26%*and another company, which hasn’t been named, to offer the branded insurance, according to Markel and regulatory insurance filings in California, where Tesla is based.

Revealing the program’s existence*in an earnings call last month, Mr. Musk said the goal was to more accurately take into account the safety benefits of the cars’ Autopilot driver-assistance system. Tesla says it has far better data on the performance of its vehicles and their drivers than other insurers do and believes it can use this information to offer customers lower-cost insurance, according to the California filings.

In the call, Mr. Musk said buyers would have “to agree to not drive the car in a crazy way.” If they do, their insurance rates would be higher, he said. He said he hoped to launch the insurance offering within a month.

It couldn’t be determined how the program would coexist or compare with an arrangement in place since 2017 with Liberty Mutual Insurance Co., called InsureMyTesla. That program is promoted as “a comprehensive insurance plan developed in cooperation with” Liberty Mutual

A 2019 report from*QuinStreet*Inc. unit Insure.com—a consumer insurance information website—ranked the Tesla Model S as the 15th most expensive car to*insure*in the country, with*an average*annual insurance paid of $3,300. The Nissan GT-R was the most expensive at $3,941. Numerous BMW and Mercedes models ranked ahead of the Tesla vehicle.

Industry consultants and academics said Tesla’s plans point to the inevitable change in the car-insurance world, as traditional carriers face possible downward pressure on rates if self-driving features help to prevent car wrecks. Car insurers could experience steep drops in premium volumes, and thus their profits, in the next couple of decades, consultants and analysts say.

Currently, 94% of wrecks are attributable to driver error, but in 15 to 20 years,*if technology delivers as expected, “auto claim frequencies will be radically reduced, even if claim costs continue to rise,” said Robert Hartwig, director of the Risk and Uncertainty Management Center at the University of South Carolina’s Darla Moore School of Business. Vehicles loaded with expensive sensors and other safety gear are typically much more costly to repair. Last year, car insurers collected $246 billion in premiums, according to S&P Global Market Intelligence. Such payments accounted for 36% of all premiums for the property-casualty insurance industry.

Tesla’s planned offering “is emblematic of the types of partnerships that traditional auto carriers will need to forge with vehicle manufacturers and data and software conglomerates if they hope to survive the transition from the current environment,” Mr. Hartwig said. The car maker is acting to take advantage “of the value associated with the hordes of data it collects as Tesla owners log miles in their vehicles,” he said.

That said, count Warren Buffett—owner*of*auto*insurer Geico—as a skeptic of Tesla’s plans.

At theBerkshire Hathaway*Inc. annual*meeting this past weekend*he said other car companies have tried insurance in the past, only to fail at it. He said the likelihood of success of auto companies getting into the insurance business is about as likely as insurance companies getting into the auto industry.

“I worry much more about Progressive,” Mr. Buffett said of rival insurer Progressive Corp. “It’s not an easy business at all.”

Mr. Buffett also noted that the idea of using telematics and other data to set rates isn’t unique to a Tesla insurance product. He said it is already spreading quite widely across insurers.

Industrywide, U.S. car insurers are spending millions of dollars on autonomous-driving research, embedding with car manufacturers and testing technology to stay on top of trends.

But so far, the industry hasn’t made dramatic changes to the way it prices car insurance. Truly autonomous cars are years away from dealer showrooms.

Tesla cars also don’t have the ability to fully drive themselves.*The car maker’s Autopilot system requires drivers to remain in control and monitors hand movement on the steering wheel. Mr. Musk maintains the system has improved safety, though Tesla has drawn scrutiny for*several crashes involving the system.

Researchers at the insurance-industry-funded Highway Loss Data Institute have determined that the crash-avoidance features on the Tesla Model S are reducing physical-damage and injury-liability claims, while Autopilot is lowering collision claims.

In an earnings call earlier this month, Markel Co-Chief Executive Officer Richard R. Whitt said its State National unit will serve as “the plumbing” to enable the Tesla program, providing licensing with state insurance departments. “Often the people that have these innovative ideas have a hard time navigating the regulatory environment and being able to execute quite honestly on their innovative ideas,” Mr. Whitt said.

Under the Tesla partnership, the risk of losses on policies would be transferred to another party, so far unnamed. Mr. Hartwig, the professor, said the risk could be transferred to a single insurer, a consortium of insurers, or some combination or insurers and reinsurers.

*Quote

[red-beard]

Elon also claimed that Tesla cars will increase in value to around $150000 because of self driving software

[red-beard]

https://seekingalpha.com/article/4260264-tesla-elon-musk-moves-goal-posts

[berettafan]

insuring your own cars? sounds like the bookkeeper opening the bank statements, doing the bank recs and paying the bills.

[Scott R]

Originally Posted by berettafan

insuring your own cars? sounds like the bookkeeper opening the bank statements, doing the bank recs and paying the bills.

Well, it was 3k a year to insure the S we had. Not that it mattered, if it got smashed up like my co-workers it will be 10 to 12 months to get it fixed.

[legion]

My buddy's S got scraped in November. He's still waiting for parts from Tesla. Tesla keeps shipping damaged parts. Tesla also has a policy that once the parts leave Tesla, they no longer warrant them. The body shop keeps sending a guy up to a Tesla store in Chicago and rejecting the parts.

[biosurfer1]

Dropped below $200 today.

I actually don't want to see Tesla fail. I think their cars are quite innovative and and interesting step forward in the evolution of cars...but their valuation is off the charts insane by any metric considering how many cars they actually sell.

[otto_kretschmer]

Originally Posted by berettafan

time to move on to hydrogen?

where will the h2 come from?

[Clint Lando]

Originally Posted by otto_kretschmer

where will the h2 come from?

PFM
pure ****ing magic

[Neilk]

Originally Posted by otto_kretschmer

where will the h2 come from?

In the future, we will mine it from the sun!

[GG Allin]

Sell TSLA, buy AMZN.

[Por_sha911]

Originally Posted by biosurfer1

Dropped below $200 today.

Ya think it might (just might) have something to do with this:
https://www.foxbusiness.com/markets/tesla-stock-slashed-from-97-to-10-in-worst-scenario-morgan-stanley-says ???
Posted the link last night on another thread.

[speeder]

I’m wondering if this might be the time to start thinking about buying some Tesla w the understanding that it’s a big gamble but they might get bought up by someone a lot bigger than them, which has always been an eventuality IMO.

[trader220]

What's worse is Musk has some 500mm in personal loans that are backed by his shares. He's going to get a margin call on the loans if the stock drops much further.

I read that some car wash owners wont allow Model 3's through the wash because the leak horribly. Build quality is poor at best.

Look out belowwwwwwwww


"Mortimer, get in there and sell sell sell"

[trader220]

Originally Posted by speeder

I’m wondering if this might be the time to start thinking about buying some Tesla w the understanding that it’s a big gamble but they might get bought up by someone a lot bigger than them, which has always been an eventuality IMO.

Who do you think the suitors are?

If you have a suitor, why would they step in here? Why not wait until it halves again?

[biosurfer1]

Originally Posted by trader220

Who do you think the suitors are?

If you have a suitor, why would they step in here? Why not wait until it halves again?

No one will touch it with a 30' pole at these prices. Even if you add up every post it note Tesla owns and every piece of IP they own, it does not come close to the $35 billion valuation the market is currently claiming.

"Last quarter, Ford sold more than nine times as many vehicles in the US than Tesla did worldwide."

And yet before this month, Tesla was valued MORE than Ford??

[trader220]

Originally Posted by biosurfer1

no one will touch it with a 30' pole at these prices. Even if you add up every post it note tesla owns and every piece of ip they own, it does not come close to the $35 billion valuation the market is currently claiming.

"last quarter, ford sold more than nine times as many vehicles in the us than tesla did worldwide."

and yet before this month, tesla was valued more than ford??

bingo

[GH85Carrera]

The Porsche all electric car (Dang, I never thought I would type that) is due to hit dealerships next year. VW , Mercedes, Ford and lots of others will be out real soon. No vaporware, no magical claims.

With a real dealer network to take it to for issues. And yea, even with the number one rating at JD Powers Porsches will have some things that need service.