Off Leash Dog Training - Anyone with Direct Experience?

[asphaltgambler]

We need some professional help in training our Collie. The problem ( if you call it that) is he's very strong willed, very intelligent..........almost too intelligent.

We are blessed that in our immediate area - lots of 'professional' trainers.

1 is Off Leash - which is a national franchise, that we know the results of 2 people my wife works with which were very good. They use a shock collar 'system' that appearantly is very effective.

The goal is to have have him off leash, in our yard ( over an acre) and in public.

We are definitely seeking pro help here, I see it as an investment over the long haul. Most of the training is $650 to $1000 for 1 on 1- with possible additional or refresher classes if needed. The pricing and time seem to be equal BTW for any of the systems.

So anyone here have direct experience? Or with possibly with different methods?

Here's where Collies differ. They are very sensitive emotionally, intuitive to what's going on with the 'pack' around them - so I want control over his spur-of-the-moment impulses with-out killing his giant personality and spirit.

[recycled sixtie]

About twenty years ago we took our black lab to obedience school out of town. There were no shock collars used and the woman instructor used simple commands. I think we went for about ten one hour sessions. We took our lab to two sets of classes as she was not a great student.

She was certainly much improved but still liked to jump up at people. I congratulate you for taking some action towards improving your dog's behavior. I remember though one German shepherd dog was too aggressive during the first class. The teacher sent the dog and owner home as she felt the dog was untrainable.

[GH85Carrera]

It is so much on the dog's desire to please you. I used to have a doberman that adopted me. She just showed up on my front porch, and that was her favorite place in the world for some reason. She was very smart and learned quickly. When I would mow the front yard, she would be right there at the gate. At first I had to snap my fingers to get her to sit, after a few times she would run up, and sit waiting for my release. I would push the mower to the front yard and snap my fingers, like a streak she ran to the front porch and watched. I could stop and have to empty the bag in the compost pile in the back yard and she sat in place on the porch. When I shut down the mower and was done, white me doing anything she knew to go to the back yard.

All the neighborhood knew her in short order. She loved tennis balls and the kids would bring over a few and play in the back yard and she would run like the happiest dog ever. The kids leave, and she would sleep for a while and was ready to go again. She was a great dog. I still miss Betty.

[BK911]

"The goal is to have have him off leash, in our yard ( over an acre) and in public."

If I read this right, I would advise against it.
Having a dog off leash in public is just waiting for something to go wrong.
No matter how well trained, he WILL chase a squirrel or something, possibly into traffic.
Around the yard is easy; wireless fence.
I use it and it only took about an hour to train, another month or two on collar.
Now I dont even use the collar and he still wont go near the border.
I didnt even bury the wire, just laid it on the ground.
After a fall season it buried itself.

[VincentVega]

I went through similar training with 2 GSPs. Talk about strong willed and stubborn, the dogs I mean. Off leash was after the basics and even then a struggle at times. Nothing about the classes was magic, more training me to interact with the dogs. Then, lots of time working with them. Work up from alone on a thin lead to at the dog park with lots of distraction. Time in class was only the beginning, maybe 20% of whats required to make it work.

[LWJ]

We hired a trainer for my black lab. It is probably more about training the human than the dog.

I forget details. Sorry.

My prior lab was super well behaved. 99.9% perfect. Truly. It was mostly a matter of spending time with him and communication. Current dog isn't as intuitive. He needs to be instructed.


As to your question. My next door neighbor has a collie and is a contractor. The dog goes with him everywhere. If the neighbor comes over? Dog is with him. Even in my house. End result? Almost perfect behavior. No leash.

Not all dogs can do this. My current one probably could not.

Look into clicker training. That was the basis of what our trainer used. It is all about letting the dog know your wishes.

[Craig T]

Send him here! The six-week Boot Camp Program is awesome. When you get him back he'll make lassie look like a juvenile delinquent. It's a little expensive, but there are several levels of training.

Tank went (my wife couldn't handle him and insisted I do something). After, he responded to her hand signals and voice commands equally. Off leash, if he starts to misbehave I just clap my hands loudly and he drops to laying position.

https://k-9companions.com

[asphaltgambler]

I'm in northern Va - so I don't see that as a realistic choice.....

[sammyg2]

Just do it like this:





Or this:

[Rickysa]

https://www.amazon.com/Dog-Logic-Companion-Obedience-Rapport-Based/dp/1620457504



Best thing out there. Don't send him somewhere, build the bond between you and him. No treats, show him you are alpha (without breaking his spirit... w/affection) and he will do anything.

I had never had obedient dogs growing up, and my wife (involved w/ golden retriever rescue) brought home a dog just like you describe...found someone local that taught the same concept and we went. Tremendous success...happy to talk more.

[mepstein]

“ It is probably more about training the human than the dog.“

This - X 100

I’ve trained all my dogs. It takes time but it’s worth it. I tell people it’s like training kids: lots of time, repetition and praise. Every proper response gets a party (lots of praise) every wrong responses gets a no and a quick re-direct to the proper response, then a party. I don’t ever let them off lead in public, mostly because when another dog would get aggressive, my dogs, especially my Shepard, would defend me. Same with my neighbors 120lb pit bull that I take care of sometimes. They never start a fight but the pit sure will end it. The leash is more about protecting them.

Someone one told me kids spell love - T-I-M-E. Same with dogs.

[aigel]

You should never have your dog off leash in public. You can have the best trained dog that is super reliable etc. - the wrong unpredictable thing happens, maybe something that never happened before (squirrel, cat, kid jumping in its face, loud noise, scateboard, electric bicycle, guy with a helmet and sunglasses etc. etc.) and the dog can go open loop such as in giving chase (then run over) or biting someone. The only place you should have your dog off leash is in wide open spaces where there is at least some run time to turn it around, fenced dog parks etc. - That said, what you do want is a dog that heels and does never put force on the lead.

I have had several dogs, including hunting dogs and I do think that training collars are a good training tool but they are NOT what should be the center of training. It can't be a crutch. You do not want to be the guy that has a training collar on their dog every time they go out. Dogs also get wise to the collar and will act differently with it on / off.

The key to dog training in my book is establishing the proper relationship between the dog and you and your family. The dog is inferior and needs to know it and be reminded of it constantly by your actions: Only eats when given the command, does not get fed human food or off the table, does not get on furniture, does not ride on the passengers seat, is kenneled when unattended, does move through doors and narrow spaces after the handler, does not jump on people, paw people etc. etc.

Only being consistent will get a hard headed dog to fall in place. You cannot let your guard down and everyone in the family has to be on board.

Hope this helps.

G

[KFC911]

No "shock aids" for me....just time, communication...and treats . Lots of ways to skin a dawg....my way has always worked for me....no need to shock the owner imo .

Some of you guys....don't know where you live...but it don't sound fit for a dawg to run loose....me either .

[mepstein]

Originally Posted by aigel

You should never have your dog off leash in public. You can have the best trained dog that is super reliable etc. - the wrong unpredictable thing happens, maybe something that never happened before (squirrel, cat, kid jumping in its face, loud noise, scateboard, electric bicycle, guy with a helmet and sunglasses etc. etc.) and the dog can go open loop such as in giving chase (then run over) or biting someone. The only place you should have your dog off leash is in wide open spaces where there is at least some run time to turn it around, fenced dog parks etc. - That said, what you do want is a dog that heels and does never put force on the lead.

I have had several dogs, including hunting dogs and I do think that training collars are a good training tool but they are NOT what should be the center of training. It can't be a crutch. You do not want to be the guy that has a training collar on their dog every time they go out. Dogs also get wise to the collar and will act differently with it on / off.

The key to dog training in my book is establishing the proper relationship between the dog and you and your family. The dog is inferior and needs to know it and be reminded of it constantly by your actions: Only eats when given the command, does not get fed human food or off the table, does not get on furniture, does not ride on the passengers seat, is kenneled when unattended, does move through doors and narrow spaces after the handler, does not jump on people, paw people etc. etc.

Only being consistent will get a hard headed dog to fall in place. You cannot let your guard down and everyone in the family has to be on board.

Hope this helps.

G

Goes back to training the owner.

When my daughter was 8 years old, she had to pin down the Sheppard until he relaxed and realized she was the boss. Someone has to be in charge it’s you or the dog. I have an electronic coller but only use it if we are in the field or woods in an unknown area. I hardly every touch it.

[stomachmonkey]

Originally Posted by BK911

"The goal is to have have him off leash, in our yard ( over an acre) and in public."

If I read this right, I would advise against it.
Having a dog off leash in public is just waiting for something to go wrong.

Yup, both my Mastiffs were extremely well trained. Responded to every command the first time immediately. When the dogs have 50-100 lbs on the owners you can't have it any other way.

That said, the female at around 3 years old developed a severe dislike of certain dogs. There was no predictable pattern. She could be at the dog park with 50 other dogs having a great time and one would show up, she'd take one look, decide she didn't like it and it was on.

We are talking other dogs on the other side of a field just minding its own business. She'd charge across the field and engage.

Same with kids, around the same time she started having issues with kids who were exactly her eye level. Shorter no problem, taller, no problem. Eye to eye, not good.

I'm not a fan of shock collars or choker chains. Not much different than spanking your kids. It does not teach respect, only fear. Dogs are pack animals and the single easiest thing you can do is make it understand you are the Alpha.

That involves seemingly silly stuff like not allowing it to lead you through a door, it must always follow you.

The dog can't think like a person, you have to think like a dog.

Like, don't repeat commands, it only teaches the dog they don't have to listen the first time.

If it picks something up that you don't want it to have, don't chase it. Dog thinks, "what an awesome game, I should pick this up every time I want to play"

Don't use its name in your angry voice or when disciplining. Only teaches the dog to be afraid of its name and it won't react as well as if it only associates its name with food, getting pet, the good stuff.

Last, praise. Praise for a dog is far more valuable and effective than any shock collar.

Any time it does something you want it to do turn it into the frikken Macy's Parade celebration.

They want to please you so give them a reason to.

[Captain Ahab Jr]

if my dog slips his collar while walking, the command 'Cheese!' stops him in his tracks

not tried 'Bacon!' yet but I'm sure that would work too

[Jeff Higgins]

I am now on my third retriever that I have trained using The Koehler Method, named for Bill Koehler, trainer for Disney Studios among a long list of achievements and accolades. I first learned of his methods three dogs ago, when I found myself with one very headstrong, field trial champion bloodlines Golden Retriever. I hooked up with a local couple who trained field trial and hunting retrievers for a living, after having run out of both ideas and patience. It was one of the best moves I ever made with regards to coming to understand dogs, dog training, and most importantly - myself.

Anyone with the patience and time can do this on their own. That said, I did spend a considerable amount of time with the trainers on that first dog. They were actually training me, not the dog, as any good trainer will tell you. Well, having learned, I have now tackled two dogs since, both with satisfying results.

Here is a link. They provide all of the instructional materials you could ever need. Probably not for everyone - you will have to decide if it's for you or not. It's a huge commitment, not to be taken lightly.

The Koehler Method of Dog Training, koehlerdogtraining.com Home

[Cajundaddy]

We train all our dogs and mostly use positive training methods. I have successfully boundary trained Rotties, labs, & Spaniels. The Blue Tics were spotty because they follow their nose and are easily led astray. I am 2/4 with the hounds.

I am not a fan of shock collars or choke chains and believe that if you need them you are probably doing it wrong. Shocking the dog can induce the behavior you want but it crushes their spirit and may lead to other negative behaviors. Massively expensive training "programs" may work but it is the human that really needs the training, not so much the dog.

In Switzerland and other areas of Northern Europe dogs often walk off leash and are continuously checking in with their master. It can work but will raise the ire of most in the US where leash laws are standard requirement.

This guy gets great results using very similar methods to ours. I recommend his vids to anyone wishing to get maximum control of their dogs. His German shepherd was an awesome dog.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=elKsANmYVTI

[Craig T]

Originally Posted by asphaltgambler

I'm in northern Va - so I don't see that as a realistic choice.....

$150 in a crate. They pick him up at the airport. Seriously.

[Jeff Higgins]

Yeah, um - shock collars and choke chains. Extreme measures that reflect poorly on the trainer. That said, there are two levels of choke chains - the pronged variety and the prongless variety. The former are unnecessarily harsh, bordering on cruel. The latter are a far different breed of cat. Even the AKC recognizes this and endorses the latter, while condemning the former.

Dogs treat each other very harshly at times. That is how they "discipline" one another; that is what they understand. Positive reinforcement is great, to a degree. It can also prolong things where some very harsh "tough love" will get the point across, pronto. Too many folks try to cajole and sweet talk their dogs into unfailing obedience. It rarely "sticks", wherein it will work unfailingly under the worst circumstances, when we really need it to work. Cruelty and harsh discipline are two distinctly different things. Recognizing the boundaries is huge in dog training.