When is an old car too old?

[svandamme]

Also early 911's an 356'es are getting stolen quite frequently.
They are easily re-vinned and very valuable.

So some people are genuinely worried bout getting them out in the open near their house because well it attracts attention and they might get stolen at home

and they are even getting stolen at concourse shows and what not..

I imagine that for a lot of other very old cars the same problem happens, that it's not a Porsche only problem.

I think for modern cars it will take a lot longer because well more of them were made.
The bigger issue for them will be environmental restrictions being applied, Low Emission zones in big cities are now already a problem for a lot of 80'ies and even 90'ies cars around here in Europe.

[wdfifteen]

Originally Posted by VincentVega

I've wanted to drive a few cars from the 30s for a long time. I expect they are better in my head than on the road.

I think it would depend on where you were driving and what car. I had a ‘48 Chrysler - not much different from the pre-war cars - for a while that rode like you were on a cloud. It was great to take out on a summer evening and cruise around. I can’t see myself driving it daily. It was slow, with weak lights and terrible windshield wipers.
My ‘47 Dodge truck is cramped, rides like a truck, and has the same lights and wipers problems. I still like taking it for a drive on a nice day.

[Rusty Heap]

Isn't a Honda Civic the most stolen car in America?

[Cajundaddy]

SoCal may be an outlier but I see cars from the 40s and 50s on the road nearly every nice day. Folks here love these cars and drive them for fun. Several friends own cars dating back to early 1900 and come out for holidays and special occasions.

US cars from 1974-1989 were almost universally terrible in build quality, style, and performance. I doubt many will become valued collectibles. Honda, Toyota, Porsche, BMW were exceptions.

As a daily driver in the texting era I prefer modern safety features like door bars, 3 pt belts, airbags, hardened passenger compartment, and energy absorbing crumple zones. That means a car built after 1995 or so. I also appreciate modern A/C that works even across the desert in 110F heat.

[GH85Carrera]

Originally Posted by Cajundaddy

SoCal may be an outlier but I see cars from the 40s and 50s on the road nearly every nice day. Folks here love these cars and drive them for fun. Several friends own cars dating back to early 1900 and come out for holidays and special occasions.

US cars from 1974-1989 were almost universally terrible in build quality, style, and performance. I doubt many will become valued collectibles. Honda, Toyota, Porsche, BMW were exceptions.

As a daily driver in the texting era I prefer modern safety features like door bars, 3 pt belts, airbags, hardened passenger compartment, and energy absorbing crumple zones. That means a car built after 1995 or so. I also appreciate modern A/C that works even across the desert in 110F heat.

The 100% factory stock AC system in my El Camino will make you cold in 15 minutes on a 100 degree day. I used to have to park in in full sun at work, and get into a car that was 130 degrees and drive home on a 100+ degree day. My drive was 12 minutes. I had to turn it down or get cold before I got home. 38 degree air and massive amounts of it is wonderful on a hot day.

Lots of cars from the era are collectible. Likely a higher percentage of the cars made back then than now. No one will be collecting Kia, Hyundai, or Fiat 500s. Almost nothing made now can be rebuilt in the home garage. With all the computers and custom parts no one but a dealer can work on many of them. Imagine working on a 918. Most cars will be hybrids like that in the near future.

[wdfifteen]

Originally Posted by GH85Carrera

The 100% factory stock AC system in my El Camino will make you cold in 15 minutes on a 100 degree day. I used to have to park in in full sun at work, and get into a car that was 130 degrees and drive home on a 100+ degree day.

See, that’s what sucks about that old crap. When it’s hot out I use my iPhone to text my Volt a few minutes before I’m ready to get in the car and tell it to chill the cabin down to 70 degrees.
There is a knob on the dash of my truck that cranks the windshield out. To get AC you turn the knob and step on the gas.

[LEAKYSEALS951]

I remember when in 1988, the night I was to graduate from high school, I hit the brakes on my 66' 912 in the driveway, and a rusted brake line burst and the pedal "hit the floor" It only took one line to burst for that car to lose ALL braking.

A friend of mine lost his beetle the same way.

Likewise, I remember a friend's International Harvestor Scout- If the engine cut off, it lost ALL braking force. And pretty much steering. Dangerous as hell.

I remember a 914 my dad bought. I got it running, drove it around the neighborhood, where it proceeded to tear out a rusted rear trailing arm mount in a corner. Dangerous.

I remember my 66 912 again, when a front a-arm joint popped out right up the street. The car collapsed on the pavement. I walked home, got a jack and a skateboard, put the skateboard under the a- arm , and drove it home on a skateboard.

I remember my 66 912 again, with the car so rusted, doors would fling loose in corners. A high school friend almost fell out.

Never mind the rusted gas tank, which would weep gas from the bottom 24-7.

Or the rusted gas lines, which would weep so badly, the fuel pump in the engine compartment couldn't suck gas.

I loved that car. miracle I'm alive though.

I watch a neighbor who drives his old beetle up and down the mountain every day. I hope he's done preventative maintenance. From the looks of him (and his car) - doubtful.

I've got more. Much more, but too tired to type.

(edit- my 951- someone put an incorrectly sized bolt into the steering column to secure the steering rack to the steering shaft. I replaced the rack, retightened everything - including their lock bolt- and a week later the steering column completely broke loose from the rack. I lost all steering in a parking lot. Minutes earlier I had been driving ...uh... very fast...- I'm lucky to be alive on soooooo many levels)

It all gets me to my own old car philosophy. After watching cars(mine unfortunately) burn, lose brakes, steering, power, split in half, etc. After about 30-40 years, they really do need a good "going through" imho.....

(Edit- After reading my own post...In the voice of Jeremy Clarkson... "And on that bombshell... I'm buying NEW!!!!..Now back to the tent!"

[MrBonus]

Old cars are fun until something breaks that you can't fix then they're the biggest waste of time and money ever conceived.

I go back and forth between loving and hating them.

[Tervuren]

Originally Posted by mattdavis11

It's not just you that feels that way. I would not DD my 83 944, manual trans/ manual steering car today, but I did until 2010. Everything is so much bigger now. I didn't feel safe the last time I drove it in traffic.

I do not have the excuse of old age.

Lots of places in the Charlotte area I won't pick the 944 if I have to go to or through.

When it was my only car, I lived dangerously. The relief of having something that doesn't get run over and off the road is very real.

I can't imagine what motorcyclists must go through in these areas. Perhaps they are taller or louder and it helps.

Now an old pick up truck, so long as it has recent brakes; no problem.

I sometimes get to drive an ex-military '84 CUCV. Aside from the top speed, I'd take that thing anywhere. I imagine the same could apply to trucks from any era. So long as it's had a go over, I'd drive it.

[Sunroof]

As an owner of a well sorted 1973.5T 911 that I have owned for over twenty years now, I can say the following:

I agree with most that the value of these cars makes them less likely to be daily drivers, are driven on pleasant days void of rain, snow and sleet, spend most of their time in garages or under cover and usually show up only at car shows, club events and if your daring enough that club ride through the mountains to visit a winery.

They all seem to hide until the first sunday of each month when 600-800 vintage/collectibles show up at the Caffeine and Octane event at Perimeter Mall in Atlanta, Ga.

Here in Atlanta I rarely see any older or vintage sports car driving around even on the weekends like I used to. The Porsche market in Atlanta is the second largest in the country too. For myself, the cost of repairs and parts, which have skyrocketed keeps me more conscious of my driving. A bad shift can be very costly! Besides this, the number of mechanics who are talented with the older air cooled models are retiring and just a few are around.

So what do you do? Well for me, I turn 72 soon and have been a Porsche owner for the last 45 years. When I walk into the garage each day and see ole Misses Brown in all her glory, I see art, automotive history and an elevated ego. Sure she's worth some serious cash, but for now I think I will just continue to enjoy this grand old car.

Bob

[Deschodt]

Originally Posted by onewhippedpuppy

I think a combination of value and usability is what takes older cars off of the road. A classic 911 is still very usable but they are worth too much money for the average guy to DD one.

What he said ;-) Plus self preservation.

I stopped DD my 356s years ago after the 3rd time someone in an F150-250-350 almost crushed me, because 6V brake lights 1ft off the ground are as good as invisible. Also, the steering column is an impaling device.

I stopped DD my early 911 when its value exceeded that of my modern car by a factor of 2 and "originality" became a thing. Meaning even a dent with paint work would be a significant loss to original paint.

Then there's the regulations we live in - if my oldie died on the GG bridge, which is tried to do once, I'd get fined heavily, pushed off the bridge unceremoniously with kangaroo bars and seriously mess up people's commute. modern cars just don't break down anymore.

Also, there are more and more SUVs on the road and a crash with any oldie means being on the losing end for sure - and I don't heal like when I was 20 ;-)

Otherwise I still might. I do once or twice a week on rotation (BMW 2002 and 72 911), preferably on lighter or shorter commute days. Always get thumbs up (mostly in the bimmer, people ignore 911s)

[MrBonus]

Originally Posted by Deschodt

What he said ;-) Plus self preservation.

I stopped DD my 356s years ago after the 3rd time someone in an F150-250-350 almost crushed me, because 6V brake lights 1ft off the ground are as good as invisible. Also, the steering column is an impaling device.

I stopped DD my early 911 when its value exceeded that of my modern car by a factor of 2 and "originality" became a thing. Meaning even a dent with paint work would be a significant loss to original paint.

Then there's the regulations we live in - if my oldie died on the GG bridge, which is tried to do once, I'd get fined heavily, pushed off the bridge unceremoniously with kangaroo bars and seriously mess up people's commute. modern cars just don't break down anymore.

Also, there are more and more SUVs on the road and a crash with any oldie means being on the losing end for sure - and I don't heal like when I was 20 ;-)

Otherwise I still might. I do once or twice a week on rotation (BMW 2002 and 72 911), preferably on lighter or shorter commute days. Always get thumbs up (mostly in the bimmer, people ignore 911s)

Hah, it's funny, my Ghia gets way more thumbs up than the 911.

Originally Posted by Sunroof

As an owner of a well sorted 1973.5T 911 that I have owned for over twenty years now, I can say the following:

I agree with most that the value of these cars makes them less likely to be daily drivers, are driven on pleasant days void of rain, snow and sleet, spend most of their time in garages or under cover and usually show up only at car shows, club events and if your daring enough that club ride through the mountains to visit a winery.

They all seem to hide until the first sunday of each month when 600-800 vintage/collectibles show up at the Caffeine and Octane event at Perimeter Mall in Atlanta, Ga.

Here in Atlanta I rarely see any older or vintage sports car driving around even on the weekends like I used to. The Porsche market in Atlanta is the second largest in the country too. For myself, the cost of repairs and parts, which have skyrocketed keeps me more conscious of my driving. A bad shift can be very costly! Besides this, the number of mechanics who are talented with the older air cooled models are retiring and just a few are around.

So what do you do? Well for me, I turn 72 soon and have been a Porsche owner for the last 45 years. When I walk into the garage each day and see ole Misses Brown in all her glory, I see art, automotive history and an elevated ego. Sure she's worth some serious cash, but for now I think I will just continue to enjoy this grand old car.

Bob

Love this attitude.

In the summer of 2010 we took a tour of the west in a 1989 944S2 and a 1988 911. Several weeks over multiple states. I doubt I'd be brave enough to do that now. Trucks on the highway make driving the 911 in traffic kinda scary.

[GH85Carrera]

Originally Posted by LEAKYSEALS951

I remember when in 1988, the night I was to graduate from high school, I hit the brakes on my 66' 912 in the driveway, and a rusted brake line burst and the pedal "hit the floor" It only took one line to burst for that car to lose ALL braking.

A friend of mine lost his beetle the same way.

Likewise, I remember a friend's International Harvestor Scout- If the engine cut off, it lost ALL braking force. And pretty much steering. Dangerous as hell.

I remember a 914 my dad bought. I got it running, drove it around the neighborhood, where it proceeded to tear out a rusted rear trailing arm mount in a corner. Dangerous.

I remember my 66 912 again, when a front a-arm joint popped out right up the street. The car collapsed on the pavement. I walked home, got a jack and a skateboard, put the skateboard under the a- arm , and drove it home on a skateboard.

I remember my 66 912 again, with the car so rusted, doors would fling loose in corners. A high school friend almost fell out.

Never mind the rusted gas tank, which would weep gas from the bottom 24-7.

Or the rusted gas lines, which would weep so badly, the fuel pump in the engine compartment couldn't suck gas.

I loved that car. miracle I'm alive though.

I watch a neighbor who drives his old beetle up and down the mountain every day. I hope he's done preventative maintenance. From the looks of him (and his car) - doubtful.

I've got more. Much more, but too tired to type.

(edit- my 951- someone put an incorrectly sized bolt into the steering column to secure the steering rack to the steering shaft. I replaced the rack, retightened everything - including their lock bolt- and a week later the steering column completely broke loose from the rack. I lost all steering in a parking lot. Minutes earlier I had been driving ...uh... very fast...- I'm lucky to be alive on soooooo many levels)

It all gets me to my own old car philosophy. After watching cars(mine unfortunately) burn, lose brakes, steering, power, split in half, etc. After about 30-40 years, they really do need a good "going through" imho.....

(Edit- After reading my own post...In the voice of Jeremy Clarkson... "And on that bombshell... I'm buying NEW!!!!..Now back to the tent!"

Your cars fell apart due to poor maintenance! Rusty brake lines and door panels are the responsibility of the owner to keep repaired. You are a car abuser!

I certainly don't daily drive my 1985 911, since my commute is a 14 step walk down the hall. But I sure as heck plan to drive it. I drove it in the rain again last weekend (Thursday to Sunday) on a 750 mile journey to Arkansas to enjoy the trees, and curvy roads designed for Porsches. I drove it it Key West, FL and other destinations in July. That was 4,000+ miles. I have 175,000 miles on it and it is by no means too old to drive at just 34 years old. It was in built July of 1985. I have driven it in 40 states and Canada.

[LEAKYSEALS951]

Originally Posted by GH85Carrera

Your cars fell apart due to poor maintenance! Rusty brake lines and door panels are the responsibility of the owner to keep repaired. You are a car abuser!
.

I am an abused car inheriter!

The 912 was a rust bucket, which in retrospect, shouldn't have been on the road. The 914 snapped it's rear suspension point on the first drive. I had just replaced all the k? jettronic fuel lines to prevent fire. Does everyone upon buying a car immediately strip it down to the chassis and redo anything questionable?

I would have no problem taking my SC on a long road trip- because I have gone through most of the systems, but on the other hand, but it is still a work in progress. I haven't redone the bushings yet- is a front torsion bar going to get notched and break? Probably not, but it could, and it's on my list of things to go through.

[masraum]

Originally Posted by pavulon

With a few exceptions, 80's cars were overweight, under-powered, under-braked turds. Nostalgia is a weird thing. Significant rust is a deal breaker for me.

I think that started in the mid 70s with all of the emissions additions. There's really very little from the 80s that would be something that I'd want to drive.

Originally Posted by GH85Carrera

Yep, some of the 1980s Corvettes were laughable. A 454 with heads that strangled it. And a bulid quality that was embarrassing. But it is really easy to swap the heads, and have a tire burning monster.

No 454 in the 80s. i think the last 454 Chevy car was probably 1975 or 76.

Hell, in 1981, I think, there was a California only version of the corvette with a 305 and 180hp, IIRC.

[Rot 911]

For me, I’ve just come to that point in my life where I really don’t care about old cars. I like fun cars, but not necessarily old cars. My daily driver is a 2018 Jeep JL two door Wrangler. I do have one of the last year of the supercharged minis. 2006 mini Cooper S. But it was cheap to buy. And now when I need anything done to it I just take it to the shop down the street.

I just lost interest in working on cars. It doesn’t give me the pleasure it once did. I’d much rather restore old motorcycles. Less wear and tear on the body, parts are readily available and there is still a lot of interest in them.

[onewhippedpuppy]

I think Glen is a good example of what is possible with an old car, especially one that you have owned a long time and taken exceptional care of. Conversely starting today I think it would be very difficult to replicate his experience. If I still had the G50 Carrera that I bought for $15k back in 2012 vs buying one today for $50k+ my perspective would be very different.

[GH85Carrera]

It does help to have a 911 that has almost tripled in value from what I paid for it 25 years ago.

The bad news is I can’t blame the previous owners for much anymore. And I know the idiot hack that last touched the part was me.

With old cars, no fancy computer tools needed.

[mattdavis11]

Glen, the a/c in the El Camino isn't stock. It's modified.